Zero fret

[Burdock Caudwell]

Hello,
I know some people will think this is strange however, I would like to add a zero fret to a Gibson scale Fender type neck. My method would be to add a piece of veneer to the peg head side of the fret, removing the tang barbs, sanding the difference from the existing nut, slightly lowering the string slots to act as a string guide.
I seems the break point would still fall in the same place as it is now with the current nut. Any responses would be welcome.

[Bryan Bear]

I have used zero frets in new builds so I am far from a zero fret naysayer, with that said, what is the goal of retrofitting a zero fret? I suppose it could be done, it just seems like a lot of work for little benefit.

[Rodger Knox]

It will be difficult, but it is possible. A photo would help.
The problem is that there's not enough room for a zero fret and a normal thickness nut.
You might be able to glue a piece of wood in the nut slot, then cut the slot for the fret, and then cut another slot for the nut/string guide. The nut/string guide would need to be thinner than your existing nut.
I use a zero fret on all my builds, but I doubt it's worth the effort to convert.

[Burdock Caudwell]

Hello,
I would like to be able to do a permanent fix as opposed to the expense of buying blanks and sinking a load of money into neck files and the like. Even the slotted blanks have to be sanded, adjusted. The whole concept hinges on some type of voodoo.
I think I could put wood into the slot, add a zero fret then a piece of brass to shim the wood into place and space the strings. The guitar neck is a Stratocaster style with Gibson spacing. It is a Warmoth neck and the width is wider than the standard fender neck.
I have several acoustic guitars That are in need of upgraded nuts so I would not be trashing a really good guitar.
Is there a tutorial about building a guitar neck with a zero fret anywhere ?

[Bryan Bear]

The problem is that using a zero fret is usually a decision that is made during neck construction. When I slot a new fretboard, I make a slot for the nut location and make sure I leave enough wood behind the slot to keep the fret tang from braking out the wood behind it. Then the fret width, the extra fretboard behind it and the nut are factored in to locate the beginning of the neck angle for the peghead. Or in a fender style neck, where the dip that forms the peghead starts. To retrofit, you basically have to create some extra neck length. On an angled peghead you could consider making a nut that sits on the angle of the peghead rather than the neck surface. This would seem much more difficult on a fender style neck unless you are willing to do more woodworking than fitting a new nut and forgetting the zero fret would require.

You might be better off finding someone near you with some nut files who can teach you how to make a nut and use his/her files. Where are you located? There are other ways to slot a nut without the dedicated files too. they are slow going and you may have to start over a time or two. But, you are not really needing to get this done quick and you won't do any irreversible damage to the neck as you learn.

[Barry Daniels]

If you are doing this to avoid building a real nut, then your efforts will be misguided. The work of converting it to a zero fret will change the neck and probably lessen the value, and it will not be any easier than just building a real nut.

[Mark Swanson]

In fact I would say that this is going to be harder than making a standard nut.

[Peter Wilcox]

Why do you even want to do this? Is there something wrong with the existing nut? Even if there is, I agree that converting this to a zero fret will be a lot more work, aggravation, and possibility for disaster than just making a new nut. Making a new neck with a zero fret is a different process. You just put in another fret where the nut usually sits, leave a little space behind it and put in a nut to act as a string spacer, with the slots filed deeper so the strings rest on the zero fret. The slots still have to be of the correct width, so you're still going to need some type of tools/files to do the slots. The benefit is that you don't have to worry about slot depth, which for me is a fine line between getting them just right or too deep.

That said, if you want to do it, I would do as Rodger says - take out the nut, fill the slot with wood and cut a fret slot, put in a fret, then make a new nut slot behind it.

[Rodger Knox]

You've said it's a fender style neck with a Gibson scale, do you mean that it has a 1/8" thick nut with fretboard behind it?
"http://www.stewmac.com/product/images/1 ... Guitar.jpg

If that's the case, it's simple. Fill the nut slot, cut the fret slot, and trim enough off the end for the nut/string spacer. The nut/string spacer can be 1/8" thick, and can be any material, wood, bone, brass.

I build with a zero fret to avoid having to get the nut slots precisely correct, and it easier to do it that way. There's also the possible advantage that the open strings and fretted strings are on the same material, but I've never noticed any difference.

If it has the fender style nut slot and the conversion is easy, I might consider doing it. If it's got a normal nut, it will be more trouble than it's worth.

[Burdock Caudwell]

Hello,
Yes the neck slot is approximately 1/8". The neck came from Warmoth, in addition to having the 24 3/4" scale the neck is slightly wider than a standard Fender neck. So there are no off the shelf slotted or non slotted blanks that will drop right in. It has a curvature at the bottom of the slot making it difficult to cut from bone, plastic, or whatever. I contacted Warmoth, I can buy a so called replacement that would require possibly, sanding the bottom to seat it properly, and cutting the slots myself. All for the low, low price of $7.50 in addition to $7.50 shipping. So basically I am buying an overpriced piece of plastic. Also it is suggested I take it to a shop to have it installed. So after taking all of that into consideration I decided one of the better options would be to just install a zero fret, One Time! After I have become familiar with the process I can install them on all of my guitars and be done with all the hoodwinking and voodoo.

[Rodger Knox]

Hello,
Yes the neck slot is approximately 1/8". The neck came from Warmoth, in addition to having the 24 3/4" scale the neck is slightly wider than a standard Fender neck. So there are no off the shelf slotted or non slotted blanks that will drop right in. It has a curvature at the bottom of the slot making it difficult to cut from bone, plastic, or whatever. I contacted Warmoth, I can buy a so called replacement that would require possibly, sanding the bottom to seat it properly, and cutting the slots myself. All for the low, low price of $7.50 in addition to $7.50 shipping. So basically I am buying an overpriced piece of plastic. Also it is suggested I take it to a shop to have it installed. So after taking all of that into consideration I decided one of the better options would be to just install a zero fret, One Time! After I have become familiar with the process I can install them on all of my guitars and be done with all the hoodwinking and voodoo.

If you're looking for drop-in parts to make this work, forget about it. It's a DIY job.
StewMac has bone blanks with a curved bottom, but you'll still have to cut the slots.
http://www.stewmac.com/Materials_and_Su ... _Nuts.html
I'm beginning to suspect you're building a partscaster, and are looking for an easier way. Getting the nut slotted correctly is not voodoo, it just takes a little time and is a necessary skill if you're going to work on guitars.

The zero fret will also work, but will take a little more time and skill. Based on my perception of your skill and experience from what you've posted here, I have to disagree that it's a better option for you.

[Burdock Caudwell]

I'm beginning to suspect you're building a partscaster, and are looking for an easier way. Getting the nut slotted correctly is not voodoo, it just takes a little time and is a necessary skill if you're going to work on guitars.
The zero fret will also work, but will take a little more time and skill. Based on my perception of your skill and experience from what you've posted here, I have to disagree that it's a better option for you.[/quote]

Hello,
The guitar I am currently working on is a partscaster. I put a strat style neck on an Epiphone Les Paul special II. I had to remove the small piece of wood between the neck pocket and the neck pickup cavity, in order to set the neck in far enough to have correct intonation
Next was the installation of a 4 pole 5 position switch for the bridge humbucker giving the following selections 1. Series in Phase (humbucker) 2. Single coil north 3. Parallel in phase 4. Single coil south 5. Series out of phase. Adding a hand made pick guard to create the look of a Les Paul Junior. Using Telecaster dome knobs.
The next modification to the same guitar was, Hand winding two copies of the 1959 Melody Maker PU380 pickup that were taken from the Korina Skylark pedal steel guitar. I used the same 4 pole 5 position switch to treat both single coil pickups as one humbucker thereby getting the same selections
I am looking to the zero fret as a way for the guitar to be less complicated. I have come to the decision that I am going to
use a brass strip that I have 1/32" x 1/2", thickness sand the current nut that far back on the the fret board side and then cut the notches deeper, thereby getting the desired effect.
I have 19 other guitars, the one I am currently working on is like a test bed to work out ideas before trying them on others.
However judging by your critique I'm just wasting my time.

[Barry Daniels]

A zero fret is normally not a part you can add to an existing guitar. It must be considered during the design phase and the neck must be constructed such to allow for it.

[Rodger Knox]

If you think it might be worthwhile, go ahead and try it. Sounds like you have the skills to accomplish it, and you could probably try it out on some scrap wood first, all you'd need to do is route a 1/8" slot near the end. There's nothing wrong with doing something the hard way, and taking more time than necessary. There's quite a few operations in my building process that I do the hard way, simply because I like doing it that way, and it works for me. I'm an amateur, and don't have any time constraints.
You may actually find it's easier to convert to a zero fret than to get all the slots in the nut perfect. That's why I build with a zero fret. It's hard to tell nearly perfect from perfect, and it's easy to keep going past perfect. Then you get to start over, or compromise and do some kind of fill. It's not that difficult to get it right after you've done four or five, but it took me five attempts to get the first two right.

[Peter Wilcox]

I assume you have a saw with about a 0.023" kerf to cut the fret slot. If not, Harbor Freight (if you're in the US) has a cheap one that I use: http://www.harborfreight.com/12-in-flus ... 39273.html

If you don't want to route the nut/spacer slot, you can also use this saw to make 2 cuts 1/8" apart, and chisel out the slot with a 1/8" chisel, which is the way I do it for Fender type nuts.

[Bryan Bear]

Warning -- can of worms to follow:

If you go this rout, remember that you can't just use the edge of the fretboard where the nut begins as one wall of your zero fret slot. This will move your zero fret back by half the width of the tang. That would be the opposite direction for a compensated nut/zero-fret. If you wanted to (and this is the potential can of forms) compensate you would need the zero fret closer; though with a zero fret your first fret action should be pretty low so you may not want to do this. I honestly think that the hardest part about this endeavor would be properly locating the zero fret slot and accurately sawing it. You are going to need to put a kerf right next to a glue joint and keep it square on a tapered and radiused board. Be careful that the saw doesn't try to steer into the glue joint or tear into the filler strip wood (which may be softer).

The second most challenging thing will be bending the fretwire to just the right curve and getting it seated properly without barbs on the tang. You'll also need to ensure that your fretwire is exactly the same size as the fretwire on the rest of the neck or the whole zero fret advantage disappears completely.

Before you begin make sure you have your plan in place and try to identify potential pitfalls (I mentioned a couple above) so you can account for them. If I understand your intent correctly, a big factor for you to do this is so that you don't have to acquire more tools (nut slotting files. . .); remember that your fret slotting saw may not cut an appropriately sized kerf for your fretwire minus the barbs. You will need to do some testing to see how/if you need to work around this. Hopefully you won't end up needing to buy a new saw. If you usually use a hammer to install your frets, you won't be able to do that here so you will have to get set up to press, clamp and glue your fret.

If it were me, I'd go the make a bunch of new nuts from scratch until you get it right rout but I wish you the best. Make sure you post back here when you are done so we can see how it all went down. And take pictures of the process so we can learn from your approach.

[Peter Wilcox]

Burdock, I'm confused as to what your plan is. In re-reading the thread, it seems you are going to sand away 1/32" of the width of the existing nut, and deepen the slots. Then you are going to insert, into the existing fret slot, a 1/32" strip of brass immediately in front of and in contact with the thinned nut as the zero fret. If so, my question is, how are you going to make this the correct height above the fretboard? Sort of the point of a zero fret is that you use fretwire that has the same measurements as your other frets, which automatically gives you the correct height without having to do any more work.

If this is not your plan, please explain it so I can understand. Anyway. this is a good thread that brings up some interesting points.

[Burdock Caudwell]

Hello Peter,
To explain the process I have decided on is as follows. I will form the radius on the bottom of the brass by at first using a half round file, and then putting a strip of sand paper on another neck that is not currently in use, of the same radius to get the bottom exact.
At that point I will use something akin to the half pencil method to get the top radius on the piece of the brass. After I have the top radius the same height as the first fret, I will sand 1/32 off the front face of the existing nut. Using the same technique of the abrasive strip on an neck of the same radius, I will remove as much material as needed to get the height slightly less than the brass strip to become a string guide. That will in essence become a zero fret.
The string will be breaking across the piece of brass in the exact same spot as it would be on a zero fret. It will also eliminate the problem that would be caused by just adding a fret, as that would add the thickness of the tang to the length of the fret board.
Among many of the other reasons for the zero fret, it is my opinion that adding a piece of any type of material between the neck and strings deaden the sound somewhat. That is only my opinion and I am sure other people have different ideas about that.

[Peter Wilcox]

Thanks Burdock - that's essentially as I understood it. Just a couple of comments:

For me the half pencil works as an approximation but is not accurate enough. It seems that just a few thousandths can be the difference between a clearly ringing note and fret buzz, and if left too high the playability of the first few frets suffers.

I hope the brass fret at only 0.031" wide does not damage the strings as they are tuned and pulled over it. Maybe sloping the surface slightly toward the tuners, and very minimal dressing of the forward edge will suffice.

Anyway, good luck with this, and let us know if it is less work than making a nut.

[Burdock Caudwell]

Hello Peter,
Yes the half pencil is only to get it into the ballpark. I can use another method to get the height more exact, a straight edge spanning the frets and measuring the gap from the fret board to the bottom of the straight edge with a feeler gauge. To your other concern, if it looks as though the brass is two thin I can use two pieces. I intend to use a slight backwards slope on the brass.
I am trying to find a way to post photos but the application for uploading keeps telling me they are to big.
I will post the results as I hate it when someone comes on to a forum with a problem, solves it and never shares the results.