Stewmac Style Neck Jigs

[Alexander Higgins]

Choking on the idea of spending $600 on a Stewmac neck Jig for a few amateur builds, I decided to try my hand at a low budget version designed by Matt Vinson:
http://api.ning.com/files/HAVVJu2zjUSpk ... Vinson.pdf

Some of you have seen this, I'm sure, and opinions vary from "It's the best idea ever conceived" to "total waste of time", depending who you listen to, typical for amateur Luthiery, I find. I had most of the hardware and lumber kicking around. Including buying some inserts, threaded rod, and a second dial indicator, I'm into it for around $36, not too bad if its wasted, I guess. I had to re-lvel the fingerboard on a build in progress, neck through design, and the half-built jig served quite well for that purpose:



I realized the 2x4 pine main beam isn't stiff enough in this cantilvered configuration, going to add some scrap angle or a bed rail to stiffen it up, and maybe add a vertical "leg" with a leveling foot. This has yet to have a headstock jack or dial indicators installed.

I understand the basic concept of re-creating the neck conditions under string tension and adding the effects of gravity by tilting up to playing position, but I have a fundamental question:

All the examples of either this or the actual Stewmac jig in use show the operator using a fret slotted straightedge to get the FINGERBOARD dead flat with trussrod adjustments prior to setting the dial indicators to zero, and then re-creating this zero with the strings removed prior to fret leveling by adjusting the headstock jack and nut pulldown strap. No mention of any fingerboard relief ever comes up. I dont understand how this can be discounted, since a perfectly flat neck is effectively unplayable, as I understand it. Any clarity on procedure for fret leveling with this or similar jigs greatly appreciated.

[Barry Daniels]

Just set the neck with the desired amount of relief before fret leveling. Easy cheesy.

I use a Teeter style jig which was the original version of this jig.

[Jason Rodgers]

As long as you're setting up instruments with the same or similar dimensions (because the SM version is all sorts of adjustable), the DIY version looks like a great alternative.

Here's a question about the neck jig setup: I've read the instructions and seen the video several times, but I've never understood why the headstock jack, nut strap, and neck shaft supports are set AFTER the strings are removed. In other words, strap down the guitar, tip it to playing position, adjust the truss rod and check for straightness, set the dials to zero, bring all the supports up to hold it at (or near) zero, and THEN the strings are removed. If once the strings are removed the neck moves, make small tweaks to the various supports to bring it back to zero. Would that work, or is there something that I'm missing?

[Alexander Higgins]

Ok
So if I dial in some relief in the jig prior to leveling the frets, that would mean I'm leveling to a very slightly forward bowed neck, so frets at nut and heel will be filed down slightly lower than those at the middle? If this works, how does just leveling frets out of the jig with a dead flat neck work, as legions of luthiers have done before these jigs came along? Is the difference really that subtle?

[Barry Daniels]

Ok
So if I dial in some relief in the jig prior to leveling the frets, that would mean I'm leveling to a very slightly forward bowed neck, so frets at nut and heel will be filed down slightly lower than those at the middle?

NO!!!!!! That is exactly the opposite of what you want to do. With that approach you would end up with a reverse bow.

Get the neck dead straight, then adjust the jig so the middle of the fretboard raises up about 0.010". Then level.

Yes, the jig is subtle. Luthiers can get excellent results without the jig but I think it makes things a bit more accurate. And the real benefit is with squirrelly necks that don't bend evenly.

[Alexander Higgins]

Barry,
In order to get the neck up .010" in the middle, I'd hand-bend or jack it up using the dial indicator to measure? The idea being to introduce a high spot in the middle of the neck that introduces relief once the neck is tensioned? I'm getting pretty confused as to best practice, seems like different luthiers use different techniques, I have yet to find two versions of instructions on how to use these jigs that agree 100% on procedure, though most of the videeos and tutorials I have seen show them setting the fingerboard (no the frets) dead flat, with no provision for relief, prior to then leveling the frets. Sorry to belabor this, but I really want to get it right!

The Stewmac instructional video and PDF instruction set make no mention of relief during the process:
http://www.stewmac.com/freeinfo/i-5399/ ... stxRGB.pdf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRq8B30kb1I

[Barry Daniels]

Like I said, I use the Teeter jig which is different from the Stew Mac version. I set my neck with tensioned strings on it in the jig and get the top of the frets dead level with a bit of truss rod tension. I set a long straight edge over the neck resting on end supports that register off the guitar at the bridge and nut. Then measure the distance down to the 12th fret. Take the strings off and clamp down on the guitar until the 12th fret is at the same distance minus a relief allowance of 0.010". Flatten the frets. Then when restrung, the guitar will have a perfect relief and very even frets. Do it once or twice and it becomes a very easy and intuitive process. This is exactly the method described by Don Teeter and I know it works. You should be able to adapt it to your jig.

[Dave Weir]

This doesn't sound right to me.
First, I have no problem playing guitars with zero relief. The height of the string over the next fret is much more consistent with no relief.
But regardless, I think the frets should be leveled with the board as straight as possible. My understanding of these jigs is that they are to counter act the anomalies between the way the strings pull and the truss rod pushes the strings. Since they are not putting most of their force on the same point of the neck, you can theoretically wind up with a little S curve. So you string it up, adjust the truss rod, activate the S curve if there is one and measure. Remove the strings and push and pull it back into the same condition. Then level the frets. When you string it up and apply truss rod tension, it should go flat. Then if you want relief you can relax the truss rod a bit.

I will say I have never used one of these jigs. I also have never seen or felt or been able to measure the alleged S curve. I use pretty stiff woods like Ipe for necks so that may help.
I also don't do traditional fret leveling. I press the frets in so they are level, using an arbor press and a torque wrench to dial them in

[Dan Smith]

I don't see any point using a jig on a new unmounted neck.

If you can get the tops of the frets dead level with rod adjustment, then why level the frets?

I understand the concept of adding a bit of bow and leveling. I guess it works best if the neck bends under string tension at the same spot the rod bends.

On a one-way rod, this seems like it would be a good idea.

[Barry Daniels]

No S curve here. And Dave, sorry, but I totally disagree with you on the flat fretboard being better than relief. And I think I am in the majority on this one.

Let me tell an old story to illustrate the point of the jig, and my viewpoint.

Back about 1980 I had a pro musician bring me his bass guitar that had just been refretted by a local repairman. The neck was obviously bad. There was a noticeable upward bow and twist turning the peg head about 5 degrees off center. A straightedge placed on the frets showed a drastic bend at about the 3rd fret. The guy said that if you let the tension off the strings that the neck returned to perfectly flat. He further said the other repairman had leveled the frets with the strings off but when they were tensioned the neck would bend badly. When I turned the neck over I saw the problem. There was a grain anomaly at the 3rd fret. The grain was straight until it got to the 3rd fret where it had a single strong curl and a change of direction of about 10 degrees. This bass was this guys favorite instrument and he begged me to fix it.

I had the repair books by Don Teeter and had seen his jig so I decided to make one and try it out. It worked very very well. When completed the neck was very straight with the correct relief. When the string tension was taken off, the neck took a back bow and strong turn in the opposite direction at the 3rd fret, but this didn't effect the neck when strung up, so it didn't really matter.

On other guitars the jig has a similar, but less pronounced effect since they don't have strong grain anomalies, but they are wood and they do sometimes move in slight uneven ways which you can not really measure, but may create buzzing frets when you try for really low action. The jig just takes these natural uneven movements out of the equation. I can do a good fret job without the jig but the jig makes my work a bit better. I can get a buzz free action of 1/16" most of the time with the jig whereas without it, a 1/16" action is not a sure thing. I am talking about electrics here, but I even use the jig on acoustics, cause why not?

Now, we have had this discussion here several times, and I don't want to try to convince anyone to make or buy one of these jigs. Are they necessary? No.

[Greg Martin]

boy i bought a stewmac neck jig and their metal vice stand about 10 years ago and just couldn't get into it so i sold it .last year i built my own version very similar to yours shown and what a beast it is to stow away between builds in a very small shop. it does the job for sure .its best on solid body electrics.and cumbersome on basses and difficult to setup properly on archtops. its really not as flexible a setup as i hoped for.I was thinking about building a plate for archtops and a plate for basses but haven't done it yet. ideally perfect for a shop that can have a dedicated home for it though.
i have little wall space left to hang cumbersome fixtures.i really need a shed to store lumber and stuff !!
Its a good way of getting the job done right but there are a few other ways around this cumbersome jig for the small shop.
i had both teeter books from my library long ago, didnt remember he was the first with a neck jig. if some one has photos of teeter neck jigs it would be fun to see and compare to the modern SM versions.

[Stephen Neal Saqui]

For those who still have some sanity.
This type of jig is not at all necessary for setting up a guitar. What you need is a good straight edge with a bench light behind. Skill develops with use. Strings up to pitch, tension rod adjustment, strings off, tension rod adjustments, frets removed, tension rod adjustment etc.
and you will gain an extraordinary understanding of all the changes that affect action and relief with each individual guitar. And very quickly too!

It's been our experience that the more intimate one becomes with the craft the clearer the understanding of what to do about each situation.

The StewMac philosophy seems to be that with this gizmo or that whachamacallit you don't have to think and you don't have to gain skills.

Sermon of the day.

[Greg Martin]

you make a great point.I think we all get caught up in the newest best thing no matter what hobby or trade. nothing like a new shiny dovetail saw or router base for your foredom. I know that when I started in guitar making in about 1989 you couldn't hardly find a good fret saw with .024 kerf.in fact my first fret board ws sawn using a thin ginsew knife, now we are inundated with new really cool luthier tools and gadgets and I have a cabinet full of them, mostly rarely or never used. I have my fav tools and goto items, all new makers will go thru this influx of specific tools until they figure out what fits them as a builder and it is what stew mac lives for.
1n the 90s stew mac was all there was and much thanks to them for some great ideas and supplies. so do i want the new SM neck jig yea probably,but do i really need it? probably not.

[Stephen Neal Saqui]

I started in '69. I hunted for and found good tools and my mentor and I made tools that were specific to lutherie but most tasks are done with normal tools. What disturbs me are gimmicks that replace common sense with "need" and that keep a potential luthier from deeper understanding of his craft.
Not much I can do about it. I've taken on a new apprentice and he'll probably be the last.

Oh, by the way, we built a gimmick like the one above in '72. Had a real laugh when stewmac came up with theirs several years later. We had realized how much more we could do and learn by solving the problems inherent in the relationship of fretting and the anomalies of tension rods and neck weakness and reactions to weather etc. that this silly tool could ever get close to. We also realized that that kind of thinking keeps one at a distance from really solving problems.

There are enough people on this forum that have found good ways of curing players problems. And probably even more that don't want to hear what I've said and that's fine with me.

Stephen

[David King]

And I thought we all just sent instruments off to the nearest Plek when they needed the frets leveled.

[Alexander Higgins]

This guy is excruciatingly long-winded (sorry if he's a MIMF member!), but gives the most thoughtful and detailed overview of the whole fret leveling and crowning process I've seen, a 16 part (!) series on Youtube. Parts 2 and 3 are dedicated to setup and use of a Stewmac neck jig. He swears by it, but a lot of builders think it's a good boat mooring, go figure. Given my minimal investment, I figure it can't hurt to try it on my build. I'll use his process to the letter, see how it goes. Lots of godd comparison info o every conceivable variant of all commerically available fretting tools if you have the patience to sit throuh through the whole series.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uG640VA65Ro

[David King]

I made my neck jig in 1988 and I still have it. It's handy for the odd troublesome neck that comes along but I mostly get along without it.