Single-rod dual-action trussrod?

Please put your pickup/wiring discussions in the Electronics section; and put discussions about repair issues, including "disappearing" errors in new instruments, in the Repairs section.
gene downs
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:58 pm

Single-rod dual-action trussrod?

Post by gene downs »

Stewmac used to sell one, but no more. Anybody know where I can buy this type of rod? It uses one rod that can correct for both bow and backbow. The rod has both ends threaded: one forward and one reverse - and it turns in two blocks, one at each end. I used to make my own but am not setup to now.

These rods are a lot lighter weight than the hotrod type dual-rod setup, which is kind of a thing with me.

Warren May
Posts: 246
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:00 pm

Re: Single-rod dual-action trussrod?

Post by Warren May »

I've used the double action rods from Luthiers Mercantile International a couple of times and it might suit. Not sure about it being lightweight, though. It has right and left-hand threaded rod that can adjust both ways along with a flat metal that rides next to the fretboard. I think it requires a TR slot that isn't quite as deep as the StewMac hotrods.

User avatar
Mark Swanson
Posts: 1974
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:11 am
Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan USA
Contact:

Re: Single-rod dual-action trussrod?

Post by Mark Swanson »

The rod sold by Allied is the best one out there- have a look at that one.
  • Mark Swanson, guitarist, MIMForum Staff

Rodger Knox
Posts: 497
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:02 pm
Location: Baltimore, Maryland

Re: Single-rod dual-action trussrod?

Post by Rodger Knox »

+1 on the Allied rod. It doesn't require as much depth as the StewMac hotrod, but it's not really much lighter. It's a bar and a rod instead of two rods, saving some depth but not really any weight.
I suspect that the end anchoring would be a little tricky for a single rod providing dual adjustment.
A man hears what he wants to hear, and disreguards the rest. Paul Simon

User avatar
Greg Robinson
Posts: 686
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:54 pm
Location: Coburg North, Victoria, Australia

Re: Single-rod dual-action trussrod?

Post by Greg Robinson »

Another +1 on the Allied rods.
MIMForum staff member - Melbourne, Australia

gene downs
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:58 pm

Re: Single-rod dual-action trussrod?

Post by gene downs »

I like my guitars to be as light as is practical. And on my personal guitars, I always put the strap button on the back of the neck around the 18th fret, SG style (they just play a lot better when put there). Needless to say, that makes the thing tend to be neck heavy.

Kinda looks like I might have to start making my own again. But I'll have a look at the Allied. I'm sure I've seen it before, but I've never used it.

Thanks, guys.

gene downs
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:58 pm

Oh, by the way....

Post by gene downs »

Anybody know anything about Bruce Johnson's trussrod? Apparently, there's something new/different/better about it. The pics on his website don't reveal much though. I imagine he would sell them. Maybe I'll email him.

Chris Lounsbury
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:37 pm
Contact:

Re: Single-rod dual-action trussrod?

Post by Chris Lounsbury »

Right after the LMI rod was mentioned, several people acknowledged their love of the Allied rod. They both appear to use the same type of construction. I have used the LMI rod with satisfaction but never tried the Allied rod. Can anyone who has used both provide a comparison?

User avatar
Bob Gramann
Posts: 970
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:08 am
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
Contact:

Re: Single-rod dual-action trussrod?

Post by Bob Gramann »

You don't have to turn as hard to adjust the Allied rod. You have to turn it more than the LMI rod to achieve the same neck deflection--in other words, it gives a finer adjustment. I use them in most of my guitars.

Dave Stewart
Posts: 209
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:25 pm
Contact:

Re: Single-rod dual-action trussrod?

Post by Dave Stewart »

Can someone advise on the Allied rod.... what's it weigh and what are the slot dimensions?
Dave
Milton, ON

User avatar
Bob Gramann
Posts: 970
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:08 am
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
Contact:

Re: Single-rod dual-action trussrod?

Post by Bob Gramann »

The 13" Allied rod that I use is 109g, .25" wide, and .353" deep.

Dave Stewart
Posts: 209
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:25 pm
Contact:

Re: Single-rod dual-action trussrod?

Post by Dave Stewart »

thanks Bob
Dave
Milton, ON

David King
Posts: 2687
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:01 pm
Location: Portland, OR
Contact:

Re: Single-rod dual-action trussrod?

Post by David King »

Bruce used to have a photo montage of how he makes his rods on his site I think. You can make one on a drill press with off the shelf parts. It's actually an old design and it works best in a curved slot. Why do you need a two way rod?

gene downs
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:58 pm

Re: Single-rod dual-action trussrod?

Post by gene downs »

Not sure I want to answer that....

Okay, as often as not my necks come out slightly backbowed after gluing the fingerboard on. You'd think I would have solved that problem by now, after having done this off and on since ... 1976? Damn! So maybe I need to start a new thread on glue ups and backbow? lol. Ya think!

User avatar
Mark Swanson
Posts: 1974
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:11 am
Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan USA
Contact:

Re: Single-rod dual-action trussrod?

Post by Mark Swanson »

You know that comes from using water-based glue for the fingerboard/neck joint, right? The water in the glue expands the wood surface when it's wet, and it dries that way. If you use epoxy, that problem goes away.
  • Mark Swanson, guitarist, MIMForum Staff

gene downs
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:58 pm

Re: Single-rod dual-action trussrod?

Post by gene downs »

Yeah, I know. But I've had too many bad experiences with (admittedly cheap) epoxy: not hardening properly, failed bonds, etc. I'm kind of scared of it at this point.

I have in mind to come up with a neck gluing jig that introduces a tiny bit of forward bow. I just never seem to get around to actually building it.

User avatar
Bob Gramann
Posts: 970
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:08 am
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
Contact:

Re: Single-rod dual-action trussrod?

Post by Bob Gramann »

Just to see it, I ordered one of the Martin dual-action truss rods. It weighs 139 g. I have pulled off the shrink wrap and looked at it. It is threaded only on the adjustment end, welded on the other. So, it's a bit simpler than the Allied rod. It also requires more force to adjust than the Allied rod and one turn moves it more. The slot it requires is pretty much the same as the Allied rod with two exceptions: it can be rounded on the bottom and the adjustment end requires wider a 9mm slot. I would always install this one to adjust from the soundhole. I made a router slip on a nearly finished neck, which I had to discard, and was able to remove this rod by pulling it out of the slot without removing the fingerboard. I understand that Martin has been using these for about 5 years. With that many out there, it's probably pretty reliable. I plan to get some more and try them.

Regarding glue, I've built with Titebond, epoxy, and HHG joining the fingerboard to the neck. I always use HHG now and have for many years. Yes, it puts a bit of backbow in the neck. I wait a couple of weeks after I glue before I level and fret the neck. If the string tension doesn't bring it to perfect, and it usually does, the double action rod puts it where I want it. My necks usually require another adjustment about a month after I first string up the instrument. I abandoned the Titebond and the epoxy for that joint because of creep. When the weather changes, sometimes the joint between the fingerboard and the neck would become detectable with your fingers. HHG doesn't allow that. I don't use epoxy for anything anymore.

User avatar
Mark Swanson
Posts: 1974
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:11 am
Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan USA
Contact:

Re: Single-rod dual-action trussrod?

Post by Mark Swanson »

When the weather changes, sometimes the joint between the fingerboard and the neck would become detectable with your fingers. HHG doesn't allow that.
Yes Bob but I wonder about that. What happens if the wood of the neck and the fingerboard changes with the weather, or seasons, at different rates (which they do) and the glue will not allow that small bit of creep? The glue joint can break right off, or weaken and separate.
  • Mark Swanson, guitarist, MIMForum Staff

User avatar
Bob Gramann
Posts: 970
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:08 am
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
Contact:

Re: Single-rod dual-action trussrod?

Post by Bob Gramann »

I have never had that problem. My guess is that the wood is able to accommodate that small amount. When it happened on my early guitars with the Titebond or epoxy, the edge wasn't visible but was feelable. Once, and only once, I had a customer who severely dried out his guitar--the fret ends were sticking out 1/16" on each side. The fingerboard on that guitar cracked in the middle. (All of the cracks closed after three months in my 40% room--that guitar was really dry).

User avatar
Barry Daniels
Posts: 2662
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:58 am
Location: The Woodlands, Texas

Re: Single-rod dual-action trussrod?

Post by Barry Daniels »

gene downs wrote:Yeah, I know. But I've had too many bad experiences with (admittedly cheap) epoxy: not hardening properly, failed bonds, etc. I'm kind of scared of it at this point.
The obvious cure for that is to use a quality product. You owe it to yourself. I like West Systems epoxy and have never had it fail on me.
MIMF Staff

Post Reply