Another 'Concertone' Parlor Guitar Project

If you have a string instrument of any kind that needs fixing, a mistake you made in building a new instrument that you need to "disappear," or a question about the ethics of altering an older instrument, ask here. Please note that it will be much easier for us to help you decide on the best repair method if you post some pictures of the problem.
Steve Woods
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 7:27 pm

Another 'Concertone' Parlor Guitar Project

Post by Steve Woods »

Some of you guys gave me a lot of helpful information and advice on the Montgomery Ward's mail order Concertone guitar in this thread and I really do appreciate and thank you for it:
http://www.mimf.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2654

I have just acquired another one that needs a lot of work. Here's the two of them together:
Image

Image

They are very much alike with a few obvious differences, one being my more recent one (left) has a bound neck. The neck is going to have to come off for some work and a reset.
Is there a way to apply my heating iron to the fingerboard extension without ungluing the binding too? I'm thinking about aluminum foil taped along the binding as a heat sink and concentrating the heat more toward the center of the fret board.
Michael Lewis
Posts: 1474
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:22 am
Location: Northern California USA
Contact:

Re: Another 'Concertone' Parlor Guitar Project

Post by Michael Lewis »

I use an indoor spot light as a heat source, and a corrugated cardboard mask covered with aluminum foil. Cut a hole in the cardboard so it exposes most of the section of fingerboard you want to loosen and also make sure you cover the bindings by about 1/8" of a bit more.

Look for the direction of run out in the top before you stick a putty knife in there, as you don't want to run the blade through the top.
User avatar
Barry Daniels
Posts: 3190
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:58 am
Location: The Woodlands, Texas

Re: Another 'Concertone' Parlor Guitar Project

Post by Barry Daniels »

Aluminum foil will not serve as a heat sink. It has too little mass.
MIMF Staff
Michael Lewis
Posts: 1474
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:22 am
Location: Northern California USA
Contact:

Re: Another 'Concertone' Parlor Guitar Project

Post by Michael Lewis »

"Aluminum foil will not serve as a heat sink. It has too little mass."

It does make a very good reflector though.
User avatar
Barry Daniels
Posts: 3190
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:58 am
Location: The Woodlands, Texas

Re: Another 'Concertone' Parlor Guitar Project

Post by Barry Daniels »

It would reflect radiated heat, but not the conducted heat. (Not trying to be argumentative ;-)
MIMF Staff
Michael Lewis
Posts: 1474
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:22 am
Location: Northern California USA
Contact:

Re: Another 'Concertone' Parlor Guitar Project

Post by Michael Lewis »

The corrugated cardboard mask acts as the insulation, the shiny foil is to cover the cardboard mask.
Steve Woods
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 7:27 pm

Re: Another 'Concertone' Parlor Guitar Project

Post by Steve Woods »

Thanks Michael, I believe I will try your technique especially since no one here has offered any better advice so far. That first earlier Concertone was my very first neck re-set. Your input was very valuable in helping me pull that one off successfully. That was an unbound neck. I think this one may be a little trickier. Some of the other problems with with this guitar might also prove more of a challange than that first one. I will probably be seeking more advice as I go along.
Chris Vallillo
Posts: 124
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:52 pm
Location: Illinois

Re: Another 'Concertone' Parlor Guitar Project

Post by Chris Vallillo »

Very nice little parlor guitar! I've been working on several of these over the past months and they make fine little guitars.

I like the combination masking and reflection option. Another thing that will help, heat your palette knife or whatever you use to slip underneath the fingerboard extension (I use a very thin putty knife). Don't get it too hot, just let it sit on a light bulb a couple minutes. This will help loosen the glue without getting the rest too hot.

Do you plan to add on a fixed bridge or set it up as original with a floating bridge?
Thomas Wentzel
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:21 pm

Re: Another 'Concertone' Parlor Guitar Project

Post by Thomas Wentzel »

Hi Steve .. I may be late to the party here, but here's what I find with the type of 'catalog' guitars you have there. More often than not, you don't need heat to release the extension. I check for runout, and then simply use my thinned spatula to work my way under. Just take your time, and work you way around. Usually a 2 minute or less operation. With that loose, I then wiggle the neck to see if it will come out dry. I once had a string of 8 guitars in a row where I needed no steam! I've found from experience that the hide glue used in many of these guitars was very brittle, or became brittle over time, and releases easily.

Another thing to watch, from my experience, is the relief of the neck/fingerboard. If excessive, you're guaranteed fret buzz at the 8th fret or so, after the neck set. I always assess/measure the relief and 'sponginess' of the neck (often made from poplar or basswood) before I begin the neck set. If excessive, I'll pull the fingerboard and inlay two carbon fiber rods, and then the neck is nice and flat; they're great players after that operation! Yes, I specialize in putting $800 worth of work into a $400 guitar :shock: But it's satisfying.

Tom
Steve Woods
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 7:27 pm

Re: Another 'Concertone' Parlor Guitar Project

Post by Steve Woods »

Well, I did manage to wiggle the neck off without heat or steam but not very cleanly I'm afraid. I am not dealing with old brittle dried out original hide glue but, rather, the mindless mangling of a previous moron who had apparently used a combination of everything from jb weld to monkey snot trying to glue this neck on before. Dr. Mengele also found it neccessary to crush the heel in a vise or something while he was at it!

Image

Image

This is the part that disappointed me the most when I recently received the guitar off ebay. I am trying to decide what to do about it? Transplant a whole new heel or splice in and laminate the sides leaving the center part of the heel intact?
User avatar
Mark Swanson
Posts: 1991
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:11 am
Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan USA
Contact:

Re: Another 'Concertone' Parlor Guitar Project

Post by Mark Swanson »

Don't go at it so heavy. If you use moisture and heat, and lot of the compressed wood will come back out, then a little sanding and you'll fix most of the damage. Then use shims to build the dovetail back up from the broken off pieces. You might end up having to refinish or repair the finish on the heel, but you'll be ok. Use a clothes iron or something like that to heat the dented places in the heel, with a wet washcloth against the wood. You'll be surprised how well it comes back out, then a little sanding and it'll be good. Not invisible, but good.
  • Mark Swanson, guitarist, MIMForum Staff
Thomas Wentzel
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:21 pm

Re: Another 'Concertone' Parlor Guitar Project

Post by Thomas Wentzel »

That's what I'd do, no stress .. in the end you'll bring one back from the dead and enjoy playing it some, then move on to the next! Tom
Steve Woods
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 7:27 pm

Re: Another 'Concertone' Parlor Guitar Project

Post by Steve Woods »

Mark, you're right. I am amazed at how much the wood sprang back! A little light sanding and it'll look good as new.
Tom, where would I find some of that carbon rod? Stew Mac?
Thomas Wentzel
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:21 pm

Re: Another 'Concertone' Parlor Guitar Project

Post by Thomas Wentzel »

Hi Steve, glad the moisture fattened the heel up again, those punky neck are like a sponge.

Yes, StuMac sells the carbon rods, but I've been buying them in more quantity and cheaper at dragonplate dot com.
Here's a link to pics of the jig I made to hold the neck flat, and enables me to use my dremel guide to route straight slots. Tom

[img][IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj126/onewent/Neck%20Routing%20Jig/NeckJig1.jpg[/img]/img]
User avatar
Mark Swanson
Posts: 1991
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:11 am
Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan USA
Contact:

Re: Another 'Concertone' Parlor Guitar Project

Post by Mark Swanson »

Glad to hear it! I thought so.
  • Mark Swanson, guitarist, MIMForum Staff
Michael Lewis
Posts: 1474
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:22 am
Location: Northern California USA
Contact:

Re: Another 'Concertone' Parlor Guitar Project

Post by Michael Lewis »

It looks like it might be basswood. Soft and spongy, but it can work.

I have used 1/2" X 1/8" strips standing on edge on either side of a truss rod. I know you don't currently have a truss rod in the neck, but you COULD have one. The CF strips would help a lot.
Chris Vallillo
Posts: 124
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:52 pm
Location: Illinois

Re: Another 'Concertone' Parlor Guitar Project

Post by Chris Vallillo »

Tom, very nice jig. I've been considering how I might be able to do that very thing. I don't suppose you have plans for that available do you?
Thomas Wentzel
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:21 pm

Re: Another 'Concertone' Parlor Guitar Project

Post by Thomas Wentzel »

Chris, it was a 'seat of the pants' creation, build around the dimensions of the stewmac dremel slotting guide, and the basic shapes of necks I'd slot. I'd made a few improvements over time, too. Not hard to make. Just use the slotting guide as a guide, as it were, for basic dimensions, and a trip to the hardware store for appropriate bolts, plastic, etc. I think in the images you can see the 'sliding feet' feature to enable lateral movement of the jig.

Hope that helps..Tom
Steve Woods
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 7:27 pm

Re: Another 'Concertone' Parlor Guitar Project

Post by Steve Woods »

Okay, I have some 1/8" X 3/8" carbon fiber rod to inlay into the neck. Should I use a 1/8" bit for a tight press fit or a 3/16" bit for enough room for glue?
Michael Lewis
Posts: 1474
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:22 am
Location: Northern California USA
Contact:

Re: Another 'Concertone' Parlor Guitar Project

Post by Michael Lewis »

The fit should be fairly close, but you shouldn't need to force the CF into the slots. I would use the 1/8" bit, and maybe a sanding stick or sharp file to do any needed easing of the slot. Also, you need to sand the surface of the CF to scuff it so it will grab the epoxy or whatever you use for securing it.

Where do you plan to locate the CF strips?
Post Reply

Return to “String Instrument Repair: Practical and Political Issues”