Experimental sound post in an acoustic slimline guitar?

If it's not a guitar or a bass guitar discussion, and it's got strings, put it here.
Post Reply
User avatar
G.S. Monroe
Posts: 105
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:50 am
Location: Lakeland, Florida
Contact:

Experimental sound post in an acoustic slimline guitar?

Post by G.S. Monroe »

I've been tinkering with ways to improve the tonal quality of my acoustic slimline guitars, and now I'm considering the idea of placing a sound post under the bridge, like found in the violin family. Any thoughts? Has it been tried before?

Michael Lewis
Posts: 1459
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:22 am
Location: Northern California USA
Contact:

Re: Experimental sound post in an acoustic slimline guitar?

Post by Michael Lewis »

Not a good idea unless you are going to play it with a bow. A sound post in a plucked string instrument is rather self defeating for sound production. It has been tried many times and always discarded.

Rodger Knox
Posts: 497
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:02 pm
Location: Baltimore, Maryland

Re: Experimental sound post in an acoustic slimline guitar?

Post by Rodger Knox »

Michael is correct for purely acoustic, acoustic-electric is another story. A sound post is an effective measure to reduce feedback, I'm guessing it's affect on tone would depend on a lot of other factors.
A man hears what he wants to hear, and disreguards the rest. Paul Simon

Patrick Hanna
Posts: 199
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:49 am

Re: Experimental sound post in an acoustic slimline guitar?

Post by Patrick Hanna »

I did this very thing on my Guild thinline Starfire III about 25 years ago, and played it that way for a very long time. In fact, I used a sound post under each end of the bridge. Then I got rid of them, and much preferred the sound afterwards. But I was always playing amplified. I can't imagine that this would work AT ALL with an acoustic instrument. But you can go ahead and try it. You won't be convinced of the result until you try it. Use only a drop of glue (better still, no glue at all) on your sound post (s), because I am confident you will be taking it (them) out of there about a day after you first try playing your guitar with a sound post or two.

User avatar
Barry Guest
Posts: 115
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:40 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Experimental sound post in an acoustic slimline guitar?

Post by Barry Guest »

mando post.jpg
I know that it has been tried in guitars. However, I recently tried in a mandolin with a quite amazing result. The system I used was not a soundpost per se, but what I call a "truss". It improved the sustain and the amplitude noticeably and the guy I sold it to raves about it. Sorry about the poor quality pic....it's the only one I have.
Alumnus of Wood and Strings

Bob Francis
Posts: 493
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:28 pm

Re: Experimental sound post in an acoustic slimline guitar?

Post by Bob Francis »

Interesting to say the least!
Was it mounted between the braces?

Barry Daniels
Posts: 2432
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:58 am
Location: The Woodlands, Texas

Re: Experimental sound post in an acoustic slimline guitar?

Post by Barry Daniels »

It looks like the shape of the Eiffal Tower.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2 ... ment-video
MIMF Staff

User avatar
Barry Guest
Posts: 115
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:40 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Experimental sound post in an acoustic slimline guitar?

Post by Barry Guest »

Bob Francis wrote:Interesting to say the least!
Was it mounted between the braces?
Fitted to the curved surface of the back directly behind the bottom brace and fitted onto a flattened surface of the belly brace. What you can't see are three "half diameter" cutouts mirroring the bottom of the bridge....hidden behind the back brace.

I have to say that this mando was hollow in sound and lacked projection without the truss. Only God knows what made me do it! But on this instrument....it works. I am not recommending it as a panacea for the ills of an instrument, and I don't believe it would work in a guitar. However, being open to all manner of crazy ideas, I do believe that there is more to know about this phenomenon.
Alumnus of Wood and Strings

User avatar
Barry Guest
Posts: 115
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:40 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Experimental sound post in an acoustic slimline guitar?

Post by Barry Guest »

Barry Daniels wrote:It looks like the shape of the Eiffal Tower.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2 ... ment-video
Hey Barry, if are you inferring that I'm as crazy as those tower tappers, then I resemble that remark!!!
Alumnus of Wood and Strings

Chuck Tweedy
Posts: 1141
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:25 pm
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: Experimental sound post in an acoustic slimline guitar?

Post by Chuck Tweedy »

I tried a soundpost before as well. In an a classical guitar.
It certainly extended the sustain, but killed the richness in the tone of that guitar.
It stops the top and back from moving independently, so the body can no longer "breathe".
Likes to drink Rosewood Juice

User avatar
Barry Guest
Posts: 115
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:40 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Experimental sound post in an acoustic slimline guitar?

Post by Barry Guest »

Chuck Tweedy wrote:I tried a soundpost before as well. In an a classical guitar.
It certainly extended the sustain, but killed the richness in the tone of that guitar.
It stops the top and back from moving independently, so the body can no longer "breathe".

Hey Chuck, I wonder if the richness of tone could be maintained if a bass bar was introduced to a flat top guitar. The basic idea of a sound post is to provide an "island" or fulcrum about which the bass bar rocks and pumps the belly. Maybe a different bracing system incorporating a bass bar could change that whole dynamic........just thinkin' out loud!
Alumnus of Wood and Strings

Barry Daniels
Posts: 2432
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:58 am
Location: The Woodlands, Texas

Re: Experimental sound post in an acoustic slimline guitar?

Post by Barry Daniels »

It would probably sound like a large violin.
MIMF Staff

User avatar
Barry Guest
Posts: 115
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:40 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Experimental sound post in an acoustic slimline guitar?

Post by Barry Guest »

Probably, but aren't you wondering just a little? Anyway, what's a "large violin" sound like? A flat guitar soundboard vibrates more and vibrates differently than an arched violin plate. Maybe I'm playing devil's advocate, but curiosity never hurt anyone but a cat!
Alumnus of Wood and Strings

User avatar
Mark Swanson
Posts: 1971
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:11 am
Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan USA
Contact:

Re: Experimental sound post in an acoustic slimline guitar?

Post by Mark Swanson »

A violin is bowed and not plucked. (most of the time.) If the guitars' sound took on the character of a violin, it would resemble a plucked violin, not a bowed one- it kills the tone because the string cannot drive the top in the same way.
  • Mark Swanson, guitarist, MIMForum Staff

Simon Magennis
Posts: 425
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2012 7:51 am
Location: Würzburg. Germany.

Re: Experimental sound post in an acoustic slimline guitar?

Post by Simon Magennis »

Barry Guest wrote:... but aren't you wondering just a little? Anyway, what's a "large violin" sound like? ....
Hmm I think its called a "double bass". Sounds pretty good to me. :lol:

Barry Daniels
Posts: 2432
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:58 am
Location: The Woodlands, Texas

Re: Experimental sound post in an acoustic slimline guitar?

Post by Barry Daniels »

I have seen this come up many times on this and other forums. Everyone who tried it said that it was not beneficial.
MIMF Staff

Chuck Tweedy
Posts: 1141
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:25 pm
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: Experimental sound post in an acoustic slimline guitar?

Post by Chuck Tweedy »

Hey Chuck, I wonder if the richness of tone could be maintained if a bass bar was introduced to a flat top guitar. The basic idea of a sound post is to provide an "island" or fulcrum about which the bass bar rocks and pumps the belly. Maybe a different bracing system incorporating a bass bar could change that whole dynamic........just thinkin' out loud!
I think that is the "crux" of the problem Barry (and Barry) :P
The guitar top is not structured to work well with a post. Sticking one in there just throws the whole system off.
Further, structuring a guitar like a violin-family instrument (i.e. post under one end of bridge, BB under the other) is also probably not going to work.

So, to make it better one might move the post further from the bridge to get more freedom in the top.
The further away, the better, so LutheirX keeps moving the post toward the rib until ... it is at the rib. and...
We're back to where we started. :)
Likes to drink Rosewood Juice

User avatar
Andrew Porter
Posts: 98
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:49 am
Location: The Banks of Sleepy Creek, NC, USA

Re: Experimental sound post in an acoustic slimline guitar?

Post by Andrew Porter »

Barry G. - What was the motivation to try the truss?
World's Second Finest Maker of Expensive Sawdust

User avatar
Barry Guest
Posts: 115
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:40 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Experimental sound post in an acoustic slimline guitar?

Post by Barry Guest »

Andrew Porter wrote:Barry G. - What was the motivation to try the truss?

Andrew,

My motivation was to see if I could "deaden" the hollow sound that the mandolin initially produced. I had no idea if it would work, but it did.....increasing sustain and clarity.
Alumnus of Wood and Strings

Post Reply