Experimental sound post in an acoustic slimline guitar?

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Experimental sound post in an acoustic slimline guitar?

Postby G.S. Monroe » Sun May 12, 2013 3:11 pm

I've been tinkering with ways to improve the tonal quality of my acoustic slimline guitars, and now I'm considering the idea of placing a sound post under the bridge, like found in the violin family. Any thoughts? Has it been tried before?
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Re: Experimental sound post in an acoustic slimline guitar?

Postby Michael Lewis » Mon May 13, 2013 12:59 am

Not a good idea unless you are going to play it with a bow. A sound post in a plucked string instrument is rather self defeating for sound production. It has been tried many times and always discarded.
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Re: Experimental sound post in an acoustic slimline guitar?

Postby Rodger Knox » Mon May 13, 2013 12:42 pm

Michael is correct for purely acoustic, acoustic-electric is another story. A sound post is an effective measure to reduce feedback, I'm guessing it's affect on tone would depend on a lot of other factors.
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Re: Experimental sound post in an acoustic slimline guitar?

Postby Patrick Hanna » Sun May 26, 2013 7:07 pm

I did this very thing on my Guild thinline Starfire III about 25 years ago, and played it that way for a very long time. In fact, I used a sound post under each end of the bridge. Then I got rid of them, and much preferred the sound afterwards. But I was always playing amplified. I can't imagine that this would work AT ALL with an acoustic instrument. But you can go ahead and try it. You won't be convinced of the result until you try it. Use only a drop of glue (better still, no glue at all) on your sound post (s), because I am confident you will be taking it (them) out of there about a day after you first try playing your guitar with a sound post or two.
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Re: Experimental sound post in an acoustic slimline guitar?

Postby Barry Guest » Sat Jun 08, 2013 6:11 am

mando post.jpg
I know that it has been tried in guitars. However, I recently tried in a mandolin with a quite amazing result. The system I used was not a soundpost per se, but what I call a "truss". It improved the sustain and the amplitude noticeably and the guy I sold it to raves about it. Sorry about the poor quality pic....it's the only one I have.
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Re: Experimental sound post in an acoustic slimline guitar?

Postby Bob Francis » Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:42 pm

Interesting to say the least!
Was it mounted between the braces?
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Re: Experimental sound post in an acoustic slimline guitar?

Postby Barry Daniels » Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:34 pm

It looks like the shape of the Eiffal Tower.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2 ... ment-video
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Re: Experimental sound post in an acoustic slimline guitar?

Postby Barry Guest » Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:55 am

Bob Francis wrote:Interesting to say the least!
Was it mounted between the braces?


Fitted to the curved surface of the back directly behind the bottom brace and fitted onto a flattened surface of the belly brace. What you can't see are three "half diameter" cutouts mirroring the bottom of the bridge....hidden behind the back brace.

I have to say that this mando was hollow in sound and lacked projection without the truss. Only God knows what made me do it! But on this instrument....it works. I am not recommending it as a panacea for the ills of an instrument, and I don't believe it would work in a guitar. However, being open to all manner of crazy ideas, I do believe that there is more to know about this phenomenon.
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Re: Experimental sound post in an acoustic slimline guitar?

Postby Barry Guest » Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:57 am

Barry Daniels wrote:It looks like the shape of the Eiffal Tower.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2 ... ment-video


Hey Barry, if are you inferring that I'm as crazy as those tower tappers, then I resemble that remark!!!
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Re: Experimental sound post in an acoustic slimline guitar?

Postby Chuck Tweedy » Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:37 am

I tried a soundpost before as well. In an a classical guitar.
It certainly extended the sustain, but killed the richness in the tone of that guitar.
It stops the top and back from moving independently, so the body can no longer "breathe".
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Re: Experimental sound post in an acoustic slimline guitar?

Postby Barry Guest » Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:23 am

Chuck Tweedy wrote:I tried a soundpost before as well. In an a classical guitar.
It certainly extended the sustain, but killed the richness in the tone of that guitar.
It stops the top and back from moving independently, so the body can no longer "breathe".



Hey Chuck, I wonder if the richness of tone could be maintained if a bass bar was introduced to a flat top guitar. The basic idea of a sound post is to provide an "island" or fulcrum about which the bass bar rocks and pumps the belly. Maybe a different bracing system incorporating a bass bar could change that whole dynamic........just thinkin' out loud!
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Re: Experimental sound post in an acoustic slimline guitar?

Postby Barry Daniels » Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:21 am

It would probably sound like a large violin.
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Re: Experimental sound post in an acoustic slimline guitar?

Postby Barry Guest » Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:39 am

Probably, but aren't you wondering just a little? Anyway, what's a "large violin" sound like? A flat guitar soundboard vibrates more and vibrates differently than an arched violin plate. Maybe I'm playing devil's advocate, but curiosity never hurt anyone but a cat!
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Re: Experimental sound post in an acoustic slimline guitar?

Postby Mark Swanson » Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:39 am

A violin is bowed and not plucked. (most of the time.) If the guitars' sound took on the character of a violin, it would resemble a plucked violin, not a bowed one- it kills the tone because the string cannot drive the top in the same way.
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Re: Experimental sound post in an acoustic slimline guitar?

Postby Simon Magennis » Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:02 pm

Barry Guest wrote:... but aren't you wondering just a little? Anyway, what's a "large violin" sound like? ....


Hmm I think its called a "double bass". Sounds pretty good to me. :lol:
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Re: Experimental sound post in an acoustic slimline guitar?

Postby Barry Daniels » Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:38 pm

I have seen this come up many times on this and other forums. Everyone who tried it said that it was not beneficial.
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Re: Experimental sound post in an acoustic slimline guitar?

Postby Chuck Tweedy » Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:04 am

Hey Chuck, I wonder if the richness of tone could be maintained if a bass bar was introduced to a flat top guitar. The basic idea of a sound post is to provide an "island" or fulcrum about which the bass bar rocks and pumps the belly. Maybe a different bracing system incorporating a bass bar could change that whole dynamic........just thinkin' out loud!

I think that is the "crux" of the problem Barry (and Barry) :P
The guitar top is not structured to work well with a post. Sticking one in there just throws the whole system off.
Further, structuring a guitar like a violin-family instrument (i.e. post under one end of bridge, BB under the other) is also probably not going to work.

So, to make it better one might move the post further from the bridge to get more freedom in the top.
The further away, the better, so LutheirX keeps moving the post toward the rib until ... it is at the rib. and...
We're back to where we started. :)
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Re: Experimental sound post in an acoustic slimline guitar?

Postby Andrew Porter » Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:45 pm

Barry G. - What was the motivation to try the truss?
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Re: Experimental sound post in an acoustic slimline guitar?

Postby Barry Guest » Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:45 am

Andrew Porter wrote:Barry G. - What was the motivation to try the truss?



Andrew,

My motivation was to see if I could "deaden" the hollow sound that the mandolin initially produced. I had no idea if it would work, but it did.....increasing sustain and clarity.
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