Tonewood & body thickness

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Fernando Esteves
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Tonewood & body thickness

Post by Fernando Esteves »

Hello!
I'm starting today a course of archtop build.
it will have 24.75" scale, roasted Adirondack top and bracing.

My doubts:
1) I've offers of Mahogany, Bloodwood, Imbuia (Walnut cousin), Brazilian Rosewood, Pink Jequitibá and some other woods.
I want a archtop tone but with a little more attack and punch, not so sweet. I'm going parallel bracing because of it and am in doubt which wood to use on B/S.
Any ideas?

2) Body thickness: I read on Benedetto's book that optimal thickness is 3". Heard some L7C with 3.25" and wanted a little less sweet.
I've the impression that if I do 3" or 2-7/8" I could help that too.
Am I correct?
Cheers
Amateur luthier from Brazil.
I'm here to learn!!!
Alan Carruth
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Re: Tonewood & body thickness

Post by Alan Carruth »

A shallower body should bring up the 'punch' and treble a bit. So will making the sound holes larger. Remember the fool with the pepper shaker: just because a little bit is good that doesn't mean that a lot will be terrific.
Darrel Friesen
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Re: Tonewood & body thickness

Post by Darrel Friesen »

Figured maple is more or less the most common back and side wood for traditional archtops.
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Fernando Esteves
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Re: Tonewood & body thickness

Post by Fernando Esteves »

Alan Carruth wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 5:44 pm A shallower body should bring up the 'punch' and treble a bit. So will making the sound holes larger. Remember the fool with the pepper shaker: just because a little bit is good that doesn't mean that a lot will be terrific.
Thank you. My idea is 1/8" or 1/16" thinner only. nothing more than that
Darrel Friesen wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 6:02 pm Figured maple is more or less the most common back and side wood for traditional archtops.
Yes, but it's quite expensive here in Brazil, I'm going for local woods probably
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Alan Carruth
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Re: Tonewood & body thickness

Post by Alan Carruth »

I don't think makin the box 1/8" shallower will make a lot of difference, but 1/4" might be noticeable. A friend and I once cut 3/4" (~ 18 mm) off the ribs of 'Joe Pass' model guitar, and it was quite a change, iirc.

I made my first arch top out of mahogany. The owner says he sure hopes I remember what I did on that one, because if anything happens to it he'll be back for another like it. I have some notes, but that was more than thirty years ago, and I often can't remember what I had for breakfast yesterday, so... OTOH, it does show that yuou can make a nice arch top out of mahogany.

Our North American black walnut is very close it it's properties to soft maple, and makes a great substitute wood. I've got a couple of pictures of a walnut/maple (and Red spruce/WRC) 'Harlequin' fiddle on the 'Bowed Instrument' page of this site. If Imbuia is not too dense it should work well: I have only encountered it as veneer.

I once made a small round hole arch top with Padauk B&S, and it was pretty harsh. I'd steer clear of similarly dense and low damping woods. There's a sense in which making arched plates is like fooling softer and higher damping woods into acting more like a dense, low damping rosewood, and if you start out with a rosewood-type of material to begin with it can be too much.
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Fernando Esteves
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Re: Tonewood & body thickness

Post by Fernando Esteves »

Alan Carruth wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 11:11 am I don't think makin the box 1/8" shallower will make a lot of difference, but 1/4" might be noticeable. A friend and I once cut 3/4" (~ 18 mm) off the ribs of 'Joe Pass' model guitar, and it was quite a change, iirc.

...
Thanks a lot, Alan. Will have that in mind!
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Barry Daniels
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Re: Tonewood & body thickness

Post by Barry Daniels »

Sounds like 1/2" might be the sweet spot.
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Fernando Esteves
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Re: Tonewood & body thickness

Post by Fernando Esteves »

Anyone with any experience with Gonçalo Alves (Muiracatiara) as Back and Side? Local and pretty, said to be along Mahogany tone, but seems to be harder in my experience
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Fernando Esteves
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Re: Tonewood & body thickness

Post by Fernando Esteves »

Barry Daniels wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 6:55 pm Sounds like 1/2" might be the sweet spot.
Sounds interesting this idea! Ever tried?
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Barry Daniels
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Re: Tonewood & body thickness

Post by Barry Daniels »

Based my comment on Alan's information.
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Randolph Rhett
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Re: Tonewood & body thickness

Post by Randolph Rhett »

I’ve built several thinner than 3”. There are so many factors it is hard to say what exactly the tonal difference. I can say that a 2” archtop 18” long and 15” at the lower bout is my most comfortable to play. I think the thickness and carve of the top plate is much more influential on tone. A thin top, and especially a thin recurve seems to give a boomier sound. A thick top or little recurve tend to be sharper and more percussive. But, again, there are so many factors all a part time builder like me can do is make broad decisions and let the wood decide the rest.
Clay Schaeffer
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Re: Tonewood & body thickness

Post by Clay Schaeffer »

Imbuia might be a good choice. It should work similar to walnut and has a nice spicy smell. It also looks quite nice. Giannini built some guitars using that wood.
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Fernando Esteves
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Re: Tonewood & body thickness

Post by Fernando Esteves »

Thanks guys!
Amateur luthier from Brazil.
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