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Brass binding on Garcia tiger/rosebud

Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 5:38 pm
by Andrew Jerman
I am taking a stab at building a Tiger/Rosebud inspired guitar. Trying to figure out the best way to do the brass binding around the perimeter of the body. Do I do it as I glue the layers of laminates up or use a wing cutter once its assembled and shaped. Just not sure the best way to approach this. Anyone been down this road and could share some insight?

Re: Brass binding on Garcia tiger/rosebud

Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:19 pm
by Barry Daniels
I wouldn't use brass. I did it once and it delaminated after a year. Glue just doesn't adhere to it very good.

Re: Brass binding on Garcia tiger/rosebud

Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:07 pm
by JC Whitney
It’s the different rates of expansion/movement that’s the real bugger... but the Tiger guitar is still apparently hanging together, even the brass binding on the fretboard (!). No surprise it weighs a ton.

Am I right in thinking that the brass you’re considering for the body will be in the middle(ish) of the body’s side? That’s what my memory of the Tiger’s brass is. If so, perhaps you could mechanically fasten it? Let’s say your brass strip is 1/4” wide on its exposed face and 1/8” thick..how about bending the brass to fit into the curves of the slot nice and tight, then drill pin holes perpendicular through the brass into the body 3/4” deep every few inches and pin with brass pins driven through atop and into wood body? Maybe undersize the holes into wood only, such that you’re “nailing” the pins into the wood? Cut/grind protruding ends of pins flush and buff.

A rigid glue is more likely to fail with differential movement between materials, so maybe use an adhesive or sealant in the bottom only of your groove, where it won’t gum up your side sanding, prior to pinning? I’ve seen examples of metal laminated to wood using contact cement, but usually only with sheet goods and very stable wood stock.

Neck binding would at least be brass running parallel to the wood grain/lesser axis of wood movement. Body binding would be all over the map with respect to grain orientation - a bit of a perfect storm.

Important disclaimer: all of the above is armchair head-scratching on my part. Haven’t tried it myself, just daydreaming after reading your post, and itching to get back into the shop.

Re: Brass binding on Garcia tiger/rosebud

Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 5:38 pm
by JC Whitney
... one more thought. Beware of bridging finish across wood/brass/wood.

Re: Brass binding on Garcia tiger/rosebud

Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:42 pm
by Andrew Jerman
Thanks to all. After having done some research, I ordered some brass 14 gauge square brass stock. I am going to glue it in with epoxy. It seems that an awful lot of builders do this without issue so I guess I'm going to give it a go. Now, I just need to figure out the best way to cut the channel around the perimeter of the guitar. I'm thinking a wing cutter but not sure I can get one that thin. Might just be chisel work.

Re: Brass binding on Garcia tiger/rosebud

Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:04 pm
by Bob Francis
You should be able to find the bit.

Re: Brass binding on Garcia tiger/rosebud

Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:15 am
by Edgar Jessop
Andrew Jerman wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:42 pm
...I ordered some brass 14 gauge square brass stock...
Did you say this brass binding is for the perimeter of the body? It's my understanding that 14 gauge measures about 5/64 in. Five sixty fourths ( .078" ) seems pretty small for body binding. Did you mean 4 gauge? 4 gauge is 15/64 in. just under a quarter inch ( .234" ).

Re: Brass binding on Garcia tiger/rosebud

Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 3:11 pm
by Bob Francis
I jumped to the 15/64 conclusion,

Re: Brass binding on Garcia tiger/rosebud

Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:09 pm
by Andrew Jerman
Sorry. Its 16 gauge square brass wire. It measures .058. I'll use a 1.5mm chisel. Gauges aren't universal to all materials. Its not technically binding. Maybe trim or accent. It does run the perimeter of the body on the side top and bottom although I don't think I'll be doing that. I'm just going to do the top.

Re: Brass binding on Garcia tiger/rosebud

Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:32 pm
by Andrew Jerman
Well, here it is on a mandolin that I built and am now gearing up to build a guitar. This one is headed to finishing booth soon. I spoke with some other builders that make Irwin tributes and they all confirmed the key was a tight slot and CA adhesive. I've done three mandolins so far and each one is a little better than the last. Joints are much tougher than celluloid or wood binding to get matched up..
inlay.jpg

Re: Brass binding on Garcia tiger/rosebud

Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:34 pm
by Andrew Jerman
p mandolin.jpg

Re: Brass binding on Garcia tiger/rosebud

Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:24 pm
by David King
I missed this thread before, I use 14kt gold-filled square wire in 1/2 soft for doing inlays. It's relatively inexpensive and it never tarnishes. CA holds it really well and you can buff it lightly but no heavy sanding or you'll sand through the gold layer. The base metal is bronze I think so it may well hold up better than brass. If you need lots of tight bends you'll want it in "dead soft".