HORRIBLE neck joint :/, did i f* up so bad? (again)

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Leonardo Silva
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Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:04 pm

HORRIBLE neck joint :/, did i f* up so bad? (again)

Post by Leonardo Silva »

so far in my first build I got a lot of problems, most of them I managed to solve it, but this time I got something way too ugly to be fixed I think.

my options is to sand the body wood and put an horrible and ugly glue spot with titebond and wood dust, since the finish should be clear, it's gonna look like crap.

the other option is to put something straight and route straight through those imperfections and lave a huge gap, that might be filled with a wood strip later on, but looking on how I messed up something like this, maybe trying to fix it I might make it worse, oh also, the neck pocket is an slight angle, that's why my template moved a bit JUST in the ending, got the rest perfect.

on the other hand, I think I just mess it up, I think I'm lucky if I can sell so I won't lose any money, I really feel frustrated as this is the only thing that it matters to me and the only thing that I want to accomplish in a good fashion, I think I just wasted over 4 months of work.
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on the other side it doesn't look THAT bad, still, that's the ugliest spot for the fretboard/neck joint, again, not enough clamps u_u
on the other side it doesn't look THAT bad, still, that's the ugliest spot for the fretboard/neck joint, again, not enough clamps u_u
and this is how horrible it looks on this side :/, the template slipped a bit, I DAMN THE FACT I LACK GOOD CLAMPS, something that enhanced the chance of this was the fact that it was an angled jig :/
and this is how horrible it looks on this side :/, the template slipped a bit, I DAMN THE FACT I LACK GOOD CLAMPS, something that enhanced the chance of this was the fact that it was an angled jig :/
this is my procedure to get the neck joint, this is aligned with the actual neck, then routed the template
this is my procedure to get the neck joint, this is aligned with the actual neck, then routed the template
here I show how tight is the neck pocket to the template, I can even hold it in the air like I show here, I think it's called the Ormsby test, I was hoping it would work with the body too u_u
here I show how tight is the neck pocket to the template, I can even hold it in the air like I show here, I think it's called the Ormsby test, I was hoping it would work with the body too u_u

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Mark Swanson
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Re: HORRIBLE neck joint :/, did i f* up so bad? (again)

Post by Mark Swanson »

Well, it is what it is now and your options are to fill it with something, a wood strip would be the best. Much of your angst would subside if you changed your plan just a bit. Make it a sunburst finish to hide the scar, or even a solid color guitar. Neither one is a bad way to go, it just doesn't fit your original idea of a clear finish. Put a clear finish on the next one then.
  • Mark Swanson, guitarist, MIMForum Staff

Steve Senseney
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Re: HORRIBLE neck joint :/, did i f* up so bad? (again)

Post by Steve Senseney »

As I see the problem you need to narrow the area where you neck pocket fits.

It looks like you could chisel the area to a straight line, glue in a block of matching wood, and have a fairly good chance of hiding the repair.

Hot hide glue does not color the wood, and takes finish quite well. It would be my glue of choice for this repair.

As I started building guitars, one of the main things I learned was how to repair mistakes. I have practiced this skill a lot!

Leonardo Silva
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Re: HORRIBLE neck joint :/, did i f* up so bad? (again)

Post by Leonardo Silva »

^only have titebond, hide glue is out of the purse for now, I will route an straight line instead of chisel it and then glue the matching piece of wood, if the joint is too obvious, I will have to sunburst it, so far it doesn't look that bad on my PSD design.
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meh, kinda looks almost good, I guess someone would like it this way.
meh, kinda looks almost good, I guess someone would like it this way.

Alexander Higgins
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Re: HORRIBLE neck joint :/, did i f* up so bad? (again)

Post by Alexander Higgins »

I feel your pain! I did something similar on my hybrid steinberger bass project. Your best bet is to rout back to a straight line, glue in some shims with matching grain, and re rout. Once I stained my bass body, it's nearly invisible. You are the only one who will know it's there. Don't give up on the guitar, I am in way over my head, lots of mistakes is the only way to increase our skills.

Art Davila
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Re: HORRIBLE neck joint :/, did i f* up so bad? (again)

Post by Art Davila »

I have another possible idea,
if you enlarge the pocket and add the neck wood (which is much darker)
to the neck heel to fit the new pocket (After you straightened that edge)
it might be easier to hide the repair as it would appear the heel of the neck
was just a bit larger than the fret board.
By contouring the heel to match the body, would make it harder to see the joint repair.
If I can find the thread some guy used something like it to repair a chair.
Although to be honest, I do not know exactly how strong that joint may be it could be fine or not,
but it should hide the joint.
I have a lot of experience on how "not" to do things.

John Catto
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Re: HORRIBLE neck joint :/, did i f* up so bad? (again)

Post by John Catto »

Art Davila wrote:I have another possible idea,
if you enlarge the pocket and add the neck wood (which is much darker) to the neck heel to fit the new pocket (After you straightened that edge)
it might be easier to hide the repair as it would appear the heel of the neck was just a bit larger than the fret board.
I think this is the answer. It would give you that look that you get with inset neck builds or neck throughs where the central section is wider than the neck. Would hide the problem entirely with no real compromise. Hint: if you double-sided tape a template in place, clamp it hard first for 10 minutes before routing, it'll stay put (though harder to remove but that's deal-able).

Leonardo Silva
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Re: HORRIBLE neck joint :/, did i f* up so bad? (again)

Post by Leonardo Silva »

the widening neck sound promising, but I should do that on the two sides of the heel (extra work), as well as changing the look maybe way too much that I was hoping to oh oh oh oh, this isn't a set neck xd, is a bolt on, so that widening neck idea might be out of hand for now, really good idea if it were a set neck, anyway, I'm with my shim of matching wood working on, will post more details once I get somewhere, peace!

Art Davila
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Re: HORRIBLE neck joint :/, did i f* up so bad? (again)

Post by Art Davila »

John Catto wrote: Hint: if you double-sided tape a template in place, clamp it hard first for 10 minutes before routing, it'll stay put (though harder to remove but that's deal-able).
I think the problem came from the guitar body being contoured before the neck pocket was done so the neck pocket template did not have a flat surface to rest on and getting it to work was kind of a slippery slope pardon the pun.

Leonardo
I have to ask did you remove the bulk of the neck pocket with forstner bit, or spade bit first to reduce the routers work? Or was the whole pocket done with the router?
I have a lot of experience on how "not" to do things.

Leonardo Silva
Posts: 124
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:04 pm

Re: HORRIBLE neck joint :/, did i f* up so bad? (again)

Post by Leonardo Silva »

John Catto wrote: Hint: if you double-sided tape a template in place, clamp it hard first for 10 minutes before routing, it'll stay put (though harder to remove but that's deal-able[/color]).
that, I don't have double sided tape and they don't sell it over here, like titebond for example, I just know one dealer that sells it.
Art Davila wrote: I think the problem came from the guitar body being contoured before the neck pocket was done so the neck pocket template did not have a flat surface to rest on and getting it to work was kind of a slippery slope pardon the pun.
YES!, I didn't had a router bit or the neck in order to make the joint, so I had to do the bodyfirst :/, on my other forum post was that explained, the contourned body let me less template for pressure, still, the way I decided to angle all of this wasn't the best one, so it slips.
Art Davila wrote: Leonardo
I have to ask did you remove the bulk of the neck pocket with forstner bit, or spade bit first to reduce the routers work? Or was the whole pocket done with the router?
nah, I didn´t ._., I used it on the pickup cavities as well as the electronic cavity, but for some reason I didn't do it on the neck joint, I dunno, I know it reduces my bit life, but at that moment my mind was way too focused on the other stuff I guess.

John Catto
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Re: HORRIBLE neck joint :/, did i f* up so bad? (again)

Post by John Catto »

Ah, that's a job that I typically use double sided tape for, it's tricky to clamp. On a Les Paul style you do it after the carve since the neck angle is introduced there. Angled cuts on flat bodies are always tricky, (in a ideal world) I think I would cut the neck pocket prior to doing the pickups and assuming the template is angled with a small lift at the bridge end hold it in place with a clamp there and countersunk screws driven into the pickup areas to hold it in place.

At this point inlaying matching wood will be the way to go. Cut a section out that's straight and goes all the way into the neck cavity, use matching wood and grain and clamp it like there's no tomorrow. I would use 2 or 3 sash clamps and a caul on the outside of the body. Reroute after you're done.

Art Davila
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Re: HORRIBLE neck joint :/, did i f* up so bad? (again)

Post by Art Davila »

John Catto wrote:On a Les Paul style you do it after the carve since the neck angle is introduced there. Angled cuts on flat bodies are always tricky, (in a ideal world) I think I would cut the neck pocket prior to doing the pickups and assuming the template is angled with a small lift at the bridge end hold it in place with a clamp there and countersunk screws driven into the pickup areas to hold it in place.
I saw a video of a guy doing a carved to and he did the neck pocket to abou 3/4 of the depth and finished the neck angle after he had the carve is this the wrong way or just another way and there is no right or wrong? I have never done a carve top but some day i would like to.
I have a lot of experience on how "not" to do things.

Leonardo Silva
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Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:04 pm

Re: HORRIBLE neck joint :/, did i f* up so bad? (again)

Post by Leonardo Silva »

hey, I fixed it with a shim of the same wood of the body xd, that kind of fix that only someone who knows about woodworking can see it.

Image

check the other topic for the rest of the progress ;)

Jim Bonnell
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Re: HORRIBLE neck joint :/, did i f* up so bad? (again)

Post by Jim Bonnell »

Good job. It's very hard to see in the picture. Don't feel bad about the mistake. We've all made them and I still do. You just get better at fixing them.

Leonardo Silva
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Re: HORRIBLE neck joint :/, did i f* up so bad? (again)

Post by Leonardo Silva »

Jim Bonnell wrote:Good job. It's very hard to see in the picture. Don't feel bad about the mistake. We've all made them and I still do. You just get better at fixing them.
good motto, I think I'll keep it if you don't mind :p

Alexander Higgins
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Re: HORRIBLE neck joint :/, did i f* up so bad? (again)

Post by Alexander Higgins »

Nice save! If we didn't know it was there, we'd never notice. I put my project on a shelf for a year when it happened to me.

Eric Baack
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Re: HORRIBLE neck joint :/, did i f* up so bad? (again)

Post by Eric Baack »

Nicely done. Really, knowing how to fix mistakes is a whole lot more useful then knowing how to build the perfect guitar... because option 2 is nearly unattainable...

Gordon Bellerose
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Re: HORRIBLE neck joint :/, did i f* up so bad? (again)

Post by Gordon Bellerose »

Eric Baack wrote:Nicely done. Really, knowing how to fix mistakes is a whole lot more useful then knowing how to build the perfect guitar... because option 2 is nearly unattainable...
Definitely!
I had a neck pocket routing template slip out of place on me once too. I ended up having to cut the center strip out of the body and insert a strip of new wood, with walnut strips on either side to make it look like it was intentional.
I need your help. I can't possibly make all the mistakes myself!

Dave Sayers
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Re: HORRIBLE neck joint :/, did i f* up so bad? (again)

Post by Dave Sayers »

I only just found this thread, but for things like slips of the hand and small gaps I bought a packet of mixed veneer in different colours, ideal for filling and sanding tiny gaps. Cutting pieces as you have already done is also excellent and as for the joint between the fingerboard and the neck surface I now check that the neck surface around the truss rod is as flat as possible. That helps. I think on my very first guitar I woke up sweating if I made even the slightest ding in the wood. Now I just think of ways of fixing it, usually steaming or veneer filling. I had to fix something only today; on my latest guitar I want to fit a mic/piezo pickup system so I used a milling bit and multi dremel style tool to deepen the saddle slot, but it nicked some wood off of the sides of the slot. It then wasn't tight enough for the saddle some a rosewood veneer shim has been glued into the front of the slot and pressed in place with an ice lolly stick wrapped in cling film. The veneer can be cut down and sanded for a tight fit and it won't show. The bridge isn't on yet so there's no intonation to worry about. Good luck with the rest of the build.

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