Zero Fret, No Nut

[Dave Weir]

Anyone doing this way?

[Mark Swanson]

If you take a look at the photo of my Strat in this discussion, http://www.mimf.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2260 you'll see my take on it.
I can't see how you are establishing the string spacing, but everyone needs some kind of nut. The metal behind your zero fret is yours, pretty much. But you could explain it a little bit- are those screws clamping the strings down hard, or what? And how do you set the string spacing? Looks like a nice guitar.

[Bryan Bear]

Looks like you have sized grooves for each string in the metal bar and a fair ammount of downforce applied. Do I have that right? Do you need to loosen the bar to tune? I suppose not otherwise you would be messing up your tunining when you tighten. . .

Let's see the rest of the guitar!

[Dave Weir]

The "inverted nut" is cut underneath like a normal nut is cut. The slots are slightly deeper than each string gauge. The strings slide in the slots and are not pinched. You have to stick with one size set, or you might be able to drop down a little. The slots curve up a little. Changing strings takes a good eye to "thread the needle."
I like the little brass bumps. Never seen that before.

[Barry Daniels]

Sorry, I don't like that configuration. The bar pressing the strings down behind the nut causes an upward bend in the string between the nut and the first fret. This can be seen in the photo. Fretting the strings (especially the lower strings) at the first fret will take considerably more finger pressure. Is there any benefit to this style of nut?

[Dave Weir]

Nothing to be sorry about. I posted it here to get opinions. I understand what you are saying about it not coming off perfectly flat, but I can't see that it's true. I looked at several and several guitars with standard nuts and don't really notice a difference. I think how the string comes off any break point would be a function of the string stiffness, tension, radius of the break point, and break angle. It seems like the controllable variable is the break angle. The break angle I think I have is about 10 degrees, so it should be o.k. The string trying to make a little S turn might be an issue, but I don't see it. I did make some where the bar was closer to the fret, and the real problem was it was hard to re-string.
As far as an advantage to the player, probably none. The Zero fret probably has some advantages and disadvantages, and I would think that has been pretty well discussed. For me as a builder, the advantage is that I can use a flat head stock, make the neck all one piece, and not have a separate nut and string guide. As a design element, I like it, but then I'm biased.

[Barry Daniels]

My complaint may be overblown. No biggie.

[Rodger Knox]

Initially I thought I agreed with Barry, but the "feel" he's talking about is indeed a function of the string stiffness and break angle.
Here's the rub. With that configuration, the breakover angle will be Arctan(height of the fret/distance between fret and bar), the headstock angle is irrelavant. Moving the bar close to the fret would increase the break angle and result in the harder feel Barry to which Barry refered.
Guessing .04" for the fret height and 1/4" for the distance gives a break angle of 9°, so you shouldn't notice any difference in the feel.

[Dave Weir]

Anyone out there mounting the pickup this way? I cut the little tabs off, and rout it so it fits perfectly. Installed with a rubber hammer. it's held in place by the body wood.

[G.S. Monroe]

I've tried mounting pickups like that. The problem I ran into was adjusting the gap between the pickup and string height.

[Dave Weir]

I put little threaded inserts and set screws in the back. Back out the set screws and tap it with a rubber hammer to lower it. Once it's little lower than you want, raise the set screws to dial it in.

[Mark Swanson]

Wood shrinks and expands naturally. In different temperatures and humidities that pickup could get squeezed or may fall right out.

[Dave Weir]

That's the kind of thing I'm concerned about. So far I haven't had any problems, but I don't know about long term. I assume finishing in the cavity would help some. Could the expanding wood actually damage the coils? I just have no idea have much wood could move in this type of cutout. I use typical woods, Alder, Poplar, Mahogany
Thanks.

[Steve Senseney]

I made a slot in a ukulele for a battery. To hold it in place, I make the slot over sized, and used an old mouse pad to fill the space. It has worked well to keep the battery in place.

If needed, you might be able to put some foam rubber or something similar to hold the pick up.

[Dave Weir]

I've built about a dozen guitars over the last couple years. I've used P90s, Bill Lawerence L45S, GFS Minitrons and Minibirds, all mounted this way. No problems with any of them. I feel like any kind of rubber would defeat the point of having it as solid against the wood as possible. But that is a good idea for a battery.

But on to the bridge. Any comments? Aluminum stop. Corian Bridge, Ipe ramp. The Z shape is kind of a design thing, but you can flip it around for Wound G.

[Henrique Schneiter]

It's a rather clever design on that bridge. Very simple and still adjustable.

[Hans Bezemer]

Dave I like your zero fret / nut and bridge!
(I also like the zero fret / single string nut from Mark).

Do you have more simple but effective designs?
If so please share!

Hans

[Dave Weir]

Simple is certainly the operative term.

The pickup is wired directly to the end pin output jack. There is no volume or tone control. For me, these things were always somewhere between a distraction and an annoyance. Once I started building my own guitars, they were the first thing to go.

The neck pocket is a trapezoid, cut slightly smaller than the neck itself. The neck is installed by positioning it an inch or so toward the bridge, where it can start to drop in. It is then pushed away from the bridge until the heel clears, and then forced down into the pocket. Once in place, the body and neck are pushing against each other on four sides. This is compared to a typical bolt on neck, which has pressure on two sides, and a glued on neck, which I don’t think has any mating pressure anywhere. The result of this “Bare Trap” neck joint is superior resistance to string dampening. I believe it provides better sustain than any other system, including “neck through”.

The necks are one piece neck/headstock/fret board. I drill a 1/4"x19" hole from the heel end to install the truss rod. The rod itself is 1/4" aluminum bar, with a 1/16" shaved off one side. I attach a 1/16" steel cable to the headsock end, and to a 1/4 20 threaded spacer at the heel end. A set screw pushes on the rod. As the length of the rod plus the set screw becomes longer than the cable, it has to bend.

[Hans Bezemer]

Cool!
I also like a pickup only design (without volume pot, switches and so on).
Did you ever came across "very low Z, single loop pick up design"?
http://music-electronics-forum.com/t5447/
It provides an easy and cheap alternative for a pick up.
(and IMHO a different but good sounding alternative).
You might like it.

Do you have more close up pictures of your neck pocket?

Hans

[Dave Weir]

I don't really have any pictures of the pocket.
Here's a neck that's had the truss rod hole drilled. The hole you see is 1/2". It's this diameter for 1", and the 1/4" the rest of the way.

The pockets are made after the neck is done. They are undersized by 3/128 of an inch. The pocket looks pretty much like a typical fender, except there's no cutaway, so it extends to the 16th fret on both sides. The neck is 23 frets so there is a lot of meat on each side. I don't know if a Fender pocket would be a rectangle or trapazoid if it was extend all the way.

I'll check out the low Z pickup. Thanks!