A New Solera With Sides.

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Gilbert Fredrickson
Posts: 291
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:07 pm

A New Solera With Sides.

Post by Gilbert Fredrickson »

I build the 1888 Torres guitar following the Cumpiano book to the letter: 0 neck angle, top dome planed into the lower harmonic brace, assembled "free style." I use molds for my steel string guitars. I'm thinking I would like to make a solera with sides for the 1943 Hauser plan. My question is whether a 4mm dome and 0 neck angle is good, or should I add a 1mm-2mm forward neck angle and decrease the dome to 3mm. I've had very good results with 0 neck angle and tapered fingerboards.
Clay Schaeffer
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Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:04 pm

Re: A New Solera With Sides.

Post by Clay Schaeffer »

Daniel Friederich used a mold and solera combination I believe, and I have done something similar on occasion. Since I use the same "flat" workboard for a number of different designs (steel and nylon) I make removable pieces to give the required doming. I use some free rubberized gasket material my brother gave me, but cardboard might work as well. It allows me to add forward angle for classicals and for steel strings I can elevate the end of the neck to add back angle.
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Simon Magennis
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Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2012 7:51 am
Location: Menorca. Spain.

Re: A New Solera With Sides.

Post by Simon Magennis »

I don't know the 1943 plan. For the 1937 GAL plan, some people do it with about 2 mm for neck angle and 1.5mm for the dome. The underside of the bridge locks in the dome and maybe increases. There is a lot of debate on that topic with some people even arguing that the older Hauser guitars were built without a dome and that the subsequent dome is purely as a result of the bridge. I don't know. The way the Hauser family builds also means that the neck angle has lots of time to settle before they finish the guitars or go about fretting them.
Gilbert Fredrickson
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Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:07 pm

Re: A New Solera With Sides.

Post by Gilbert Fredrickson »

Thanks. I guess it comes down to how I want to build it. This would be exclusive to the 1943. I'd still have my Cumpiano workboard. I remember my first guitar. I was so surprised it was playable. I just followed the book.
I just made two molds for Early Romantic guitars. They'll have dovetail neck joints. I thought I'd make classical solera and mold for the '43 Hauser. I have a Torres to finish up before I start on the Hauser plantilla. Over the course of a few guitars, I've sanded a little more shape into the Torres template and bending form. It's a few millimeters smaller, here and there.
Simon Magennis
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2012 7:51 am
Location: Menorca. Spain.

Re: A New Solera With Sides.

Post by Simon Magennis »

What Clay shows is quite similar to what Cumpliano has with cork tile but a bit more refined. "Built-up" workboards are a common enough method. The important thing about the dome and neck angle is just that you get a system that works. The more precision and understanding at the initial phases, the less work to adjust the geometry later by manipulating the fretboard. Making a mold that fits your existing work board would be an option too. The Hauser (1937) varies a bit from Torres style in having a somewhat thicker sound board in the centre but with lower fan braces and of course a bridge plate. I suppose the top is overall a bit stiffer but how much is a question I have no idea about. Both styles work.
Gilbert Fredrickson
Posts: 291
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:07 pm

Re: A New Solera With Sides.

Post by Gilbert Fredrickson »

Yes, the built up solera has been working for me. I still plane the arches for the top and back dome into the braces. I simply swap out the cork shims for the 2 steel strings and 2 nylon string guitars I build. I could use everything, including the Torres side bending form, as is and make adjustments. So far, it's all been in the fingerboard taper. I guess I'm building a Cumpiano classical guitar with Torres features. I'll make a drawing. That always helps.
Brent Tobin
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Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 4:05 pm

Re: A New Solera With Sides.

Post by Brent Tobin »

I use 'inserts' like Clay, but I have multiple adjustable L shaped brackets that I can change to the shape that I'm building (much like Mega-mold) for the sides. I made two of these with double thick 18mm birch-ply and they should last more than my lifetime (I hope, lol)
For the top doming, there is some debate. Arching the lower harmonic bar, arching the fan braces, using a carved-out workboard and clamping on flat fan braces and even building 'flat' and arching the bottom of the bridge to give the dome you want when the bridge is clamped to the top.
I don't know if one design is any better than the others sound-wise. I have heard some players prefer a design that angles the neck back towards the player because it feels more comfortable. Kind of like the difference between a Fender Strat and a Gibson ES-335.
Better to have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy
Clay Schaeffer
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Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:04 pm

Re: A New Solera With Sides.

Post by Clay Schaeffer »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJSDS2e0As4
Solera with sides and neck angle discussion.
Gilbert Fredrickson
Posts: 291
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:07 pm

Re: A New Solera With Sides.

Post by Gilbert Fredrickson »

Thanks, Brent. The "mega mold" is a favorite. I know what you mean about neck angle, too. Clay, I reference Pablo Requena and Michael Thames often. It is Pablo's video on soleras and molds that has me asking questions. I think maybe 2mm forward neck angle and 3mm dome. I can shim the neck and hollow the lower bout to 4mm if needed. His full size mold with the body shim is about where I'm at with my usual workboard. I use cam clamps to hold the sides down on the top. If there is any side misalignment, I unglue it, clean it up, and start over. I'm always comforted when I see a little bit of asymmetry in an early guitar from a Spanish master. With my side bending form, I'm getting good results. I should practice bending free hand. I'm almost at a 'what was I thinking' moment when I review my process based on Cumpiano's book.
Clay Schaeffer
Posts: 1674
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:04 pm

Re: A New Solera With Sides.

Post by Clay Schaeffer »

Although I developed my methods independently from Pablo, we use tools that are surprisingly similar (mine are a bit less refined in construction) In addition to the solid side molds I use movable " L brackets" for some instruments. They are made differently than Pablo's and I just screw them down rather than use bolts. I notch them to take spring clamps. The bracket design I adapted from working with Corian products, but it works well for guitar making. Sometimes you want to make alterations to a design and the brackets allow you to do that.
What I find most admirable about the old Spanish master guitar makers was their reliance on manual skills rather than elaborate tools and jigs. I think they were less concerned with - absolute - perfection of form than building great sounding and playing guitars. I was building guitars long before ever seeing Cumpiano's and Natelson's book, but my wife found me a copy at a library book sale for 35 cents, and reading it over, it seems like a good way for a person to build a guitar without "hocking the house" for tooling, so I often recommend it to first time guitar builders.
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