Neck Laminations and Glue choice

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Andrew McSpadden
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Neck Laminations and Glue choice

Post by Andrew McSpadden »

I am making some 3 piece necks (mahogany) and am choosing between titebond (not my favorite for the creeping factor) Hide Glue ( don't like the open time) or Fish Glue (dont know enough about it and have seen conflicting information) Thought or Feelings??

Thanks

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Bob Gramann
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Re: Neck Laminations and Glue choice

Post by Bob Gramann »

I haven’t been doing laminations, but my necks have three joints: the heel block to the plank, the peghead scarf joint, and the fingerboard to the neck. I stopped using Titiebond and other PVA glues for the heel block joint and the fingerboard because I had detectable creeping over time. I still use the LMI PVA for the scarf joint because I’ve had no problems so far. For the fingerboard to neck joint, I use 192g hide glue. For the heel block to plank joint, I use 315g hide glue. I got around the open time problem by heating the parts. I have had no problems with any the joints glued as I have described. Be careful that your truss rod width doesn’t exactly match the lamination borders. Fixing a truss rod push out might be difficult.

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Barry Daniels
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Re: Neck Laminations and Glue choice

Post by Barry Daniels »

Neck laminations are such relatively large joints that creep isn't an issue. I have several 40 year old guitars here that I laminated with Titebond and there is absolutely no movement. I have seen creep on some hammered dulcimer pin blocks from the same era but they are considerably smaller joints and have a lot more stress.
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Andrew McSpadden
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Re: Neck Laminations and Glue choice

Post by Andrew McSpadden »

Thank you Barry and Bob!

Barry, I very much want to use HG but heating the parts that long and thin might be an issue. I just had a thought.. maybe I could lay them on a side bending blanket just before gluing?!? I travel thought Fredricksburg several times a year, lovely place. I am in Southern Maryland

Bob, I have done it with titebond with success but it feels good to hear someone else say it!

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Bob Gramann
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Re: Neck Laminations and Glue choice

Post by Bob Gramann »

Andrew, stop in and see me when you come through. I’m always happy to talk to other builders. (Let me know in advance when you are coming).

Brent Tobin
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Re: Neck Laminations and Glue choice

Post by Brent Tobin »

I've been using Lee Valley 2002. It's a high solids 45% PVA that dries glass hard and a tan color. If squeeze-out is not cleaned up right away, it will chip off, like hide glue. It does not soak in to the wood. In darker woods the joint is virtually invisible and no creep.
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Andrew McSpadden
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Re: Neck Laminations and Glue choice

Post by Andrew McSpadden »

Thanks Brent! I will try that glue!

Darrel Friesen
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Re: Neck Laminations and Glue choice

Post by Darrel Friesen »

The only place I've ever used polyurethane glue on guitars is for laminating necks. It's especially good if you're going to do a dovetail as it won't potentially separate at the laminations when steaming out for a future reset.

Brian Evans
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Re: Neck Laminations and Glue choice

Post by Brian Evans »

I've only ever used titebond, based on the Benedetto book advice. Never had the first issue.

David King
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Re: Neck Laminations and Glue choice

Post by David King »

I have several hundred bass necks out there laminated with both titebond I and II and never had an issue with any of them. I can't say as much for the few that I used epoxy on. I do like polyurethane glue but it's not as strong as titebond which makes it handy for fingerboards which you might want to pop off in the future.

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Barry Daniels
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Re: Neck Laminations and Glue choice

Post by Barry Daniels »

David, do you ever get the feeling that people put less faith in those with real experience that those with unfounded "theories"?
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Darrel Friesen
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Re: Neck Laminations and Glue choice

Post by Darrel Friesen »

Barry, assuming that comment is directed at me. All the advice I ever took on polyurethane glue was from the old MIMF. Mario was one of the ones who promoted it's use for neck laminations if using a dovetail if I remember correctly. The scuttle at the time was that Gorilla wasn't the best poly and that there were others out there. The other claims were that as long as the joint was perfect, it worked well but was almost impossible to separate with heat or moisture. It would appear that the advice from times gone by has gone out the window along with the theory of drift having to be something to be lived with on the bandsaw apparently. I've only laminated one neck with it as I no longer use dovetails, but 10 or 15 years later, it's still solid.

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Barry Daniels
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Re: Neck Laminations and Glue choice

Post by Barry Daniels »

Darrel, no I wasn't directing the comment to you. It was more like hollering into the night. I have no beef with poly glue, however, I don't use it due to a negative experience with it.
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Bryan Bear
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Re: Neck Laminations and Glue choice

Post by Bryan Bear »

I remember the discussions about PU glue for neck laminations. I remember Mario saying that gorilla foamed too much but the Elmer’s PU glue was good. I used it for a couple of necks but I could never seem to keep it from hardening in the bottle between projects. I stopped using it for that reason and the mess, I also didn’t like how it stained my hands. You can stop the staining with alcohol but I kept forgetting g to do it. Since I don’t do dovetails, it didn’t seem worth it.
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