thoughts on a contractor saw

[John Sonksen]

Hi all, I am looking to upgrade my table saw situation as currently I have two because each one has pros and cons but neither suits all of my needs. One is an old craftsman 10" saw with a nice cast iron table (good) and a cruddy fence (bad) with a motor that sticks way out the back side (also bad). It vibrates a little bit which I think is due to a slight alignment issue but I've been reluctant to put a ton of time into it because it was cheap and my expectations for it isn't great unless I do a ton of work and invest at minimum a few hundred dollars for a better fence system (not likely to happen).

The other saw is a Ryobi BT3000 table saw, which is a pretty unique saw. I'm normally not a huge fan of Ryobi stuff and consider a lot of what they've made to be somewhat disposable, but this saw had some pretty good reviews and is pretty flexible. The whole left side of the table can turn into a miter gauge/sled combo which is cool, there is a built in router mount in the right side off bear section which is cool, and you can reconfigure the table sections really easy to suit whatever you are cutting. It runs smooth and is much more precise than the craftsman but it is way underpowered, and the table and body are light weight aluminum so it doesn't give me the most confidence with cutting larger, heavier stock.

So my background is I have been a cabinet maker for 17+ years and have mostly used Delta Unisaw's, Powermatic 66's and some even larger saws, think takes 4-6 guys to move around the shop. I just moved into a new house (rental) and only have 110v power in the garage. I am willing to make a compromise as far as size and power but want the most bang for my buck. I want a saw with a nice, heavy table. I would like it if it was on wheels possibly so I can reconfigure my shop as I need (though this can be fixed with an aftermarket unit later anyways). I'd like to have a strong motor, and absolutely I need a rock solid fence. I do not like a fence that I have to constantly be fiddling with whenever I change my cut size. I want a fence that slides smooth and locks down into the same relative position every time. I think this puts me into the contractor saw range which I've not used a lot of in my career. I'm fine with buying new, in fact I'd prefer it. I'm not really interested in the jobsite/portable saws. I've used these plenty and like them for what they are, but I want something that feels a bit sturdier.

So, if you had between $500 and $1000, where would you spend that? (also I'd rather be towards the low side of that range if anything, but if there is a saw that you think is well worth the extra dosh I'd gladly entertain the idea)

Thanks, John

[Gordon Bellerose]

I own a Delta 10 inch contractor saw with a heavy cast iron table, and a pretty good fence.
It is a belt drive, so it runs very smooth, but does stick out in the back. It has plenty of power, and the manual suggests using a 20 amp - 110 volt outlet.
I have it on a roller base so it is very mobile.

All in all I'm quite satisfied with the saw, and it cost me about 700 about 10 years ago.

[Paul E Buerk]

My big thing lately is dust collection, and I'm really not satisfied with my Jet Contractor's Saw because it's not effectively capturing dust through the collector. The big hole in the back with the motor and belt sticking out doesn't help. I've looked at ways to enclose that area and the airflow, but that causes other problems.

I was up in Bellingham at Grizzly and was looking at their Hybrid saw G0715P. Looks sturdy, substantial, and at least comparable to my contractor's saw, but has an enclosed base. I have to assume that it's better for dust collection, but certainly open to being corrected.

[John Sonksen]

I own a Delta 10 inch contractor saw with a heavy cast iron table, and a pretty good fence.
It is a belt drive, so it runs very smooth, but does stick out in the back. It has plenty of power, and the manual suggests using a 20 amp - 110 volt outlet.
I have it on a roller base so it is very mobile.

All in all I'm quite satisfied with the saw, and it cost me about 700 about 10 years ago.

Yeah I see these on Craigslist fairly frequently, the do look solid. I'm not sure but don't they have the old style fence rail system with the pipe at the front? Those seem pretty sturdy but I don't remember them sliding particularly smoothly. I will keep these in mind, although I may be looking for something a bit newer and I don't think they make these anymore.

My big thing lately is dust collection, and I'm really not satisfied with my Jet Contractor's Saw because it's not effectively capturing dust through the collector. The big hole in the back with the motor and belt sticking out doesn't help. I've looked at ways to enclose that area and the airflow, but that causes other problems.

I was up in Bellingham at Grizzly and was looking at their Hybrid saw G0715P. Looks sturdy, substantial, and at least comparable to my contractor's saw, but has an enclosed base. I have to assume that it's better for dust collection, but certainly open to being corrected.

I had spied the Grizzly's and they are certainly in the price range, but I've heard mixed reviews. I've heard that some people have had issues with the motor's fairly soon after set up and some of the customer service experiences have been frustrating. I am aware though that some of these reviews may not be telling the whole story. They certainly look nice for the price and I do like the enclosed base. Seems like for the price I'm talking about it's between them, Steel City, or maybe General. I think you make a good point about dust collection and that is another reason I'm not thrilled about the open back that many of the contractor style saws have.

I have never used a granite topped table saw like the Steel City's have and I'm not sure if I would need to be concerned with chipping or cracking on those. I'd guess they use a denser granite rather than something with a ton of flake in it like you'd see for a countertop. If anyone has one I'd love to hear what they think.

The Generals look nice, my boss has one and it seems to be well constructed with a nice fence. I think they come in right at the high point of my price range but I wouldn't have that as the high if I weren't willing to spend it.

Two other things I've found is an older INCA table saw with the tilt table for a really nice price in good shape. These are really cool tools and someday I think I'm going to buy my boss's INCA jointer from him, it is just too adorable! The other thing I saw recently was a Davis Wells table saw that was missing the motor and fence and I think was going for about $125. It's a bit larger than what I wanted but I think I could make it work. The price is great and these are really nice, I wasn't really looking for a project though. I do have a 110v motor I could put in there for now and I suppose I could get a nice Biesemeyer fence for it and still come in on the low side of my price range. I'm just a bit reluctant to get into a tool that's going to take so much work to get to operational condition.

Thanks for the feedback guys, I appreciate it

[David King]

I gave away my old rockwell contractors saw from the 1960s that had a biesemeyer fence on it. I'd paid $200 for it used at Barbo and got a good ten years out of it before I found my 66 for $600 with a jet copy of the biesemeyer on CL.

[John Sonksen]

I gave away my old rockwell contractors saw from the 1960s that had a biesemeyer fence on it. I'd paid $200 for it used at Barbo and got a good ten years out of it before I found my 66 for $600 with a jet copy of the biesemeyer on CL.

That's a pretty good deal for a 66. I was doing some math after I wrote this post and figured as long as the arbor was true on that Davis Wells, it had good bearings and the lift/tilt mech was in good order I could put the big Biesemeyer on there and slap a motor in it for a pretty good price, probably comparable to a new grizzly but I feel like the parts would add up to more than the Grizzly in quality. I sent the seller an email with a few questions, might go look at it tomorrow.

[Clay Schaeffer]

If you prefer a cabinet saw, you might watch the adds on ebay for one in your area. Unisaws are going pretty cheap these days, and when you put them on a mobile base they can be moved around the shop easily. I wanted a small compact saw for my shop, so I made a short fence for an old unisaw I bought and put it on a homemade plywood mobile base. It replaced a jet contractors saw (which was not a bad saw, with a decent fence). Eliminating the motor sticking out the back and a shorter fence table felt like it cut the footprint in half.
I once owned a Walker Turner direct drive cabinet saw. It was not a bad saw, but old and a bit of an off brand. Off brands can be a little hard to find parts for and may have some idiosyncrasies which are not immediately apparent .

[John Sonksen]

I heard back from the guy with the Davis Wells, decided it's too much saw. It's a 12" for one thing and the arbor is 3/4" which is a weird size I think. Likely I'd have to swap out the arbor and I'm not sure that I'd get the upward height adjustment that I would need for smaller blades, specifically if I get a fret slotting blade.

There is a nice INCA for sale right now on CL, I'm trying to figure out how to get my hands on it. It's pretty small but I'm really attracted by the precision of those.

[David King]

I looked at Inca saws way back when and decided that the tilting table thing was just too awkward and potentially dangerous to mess with. They also tend to have 20mm Euro arbors. Drilling out all your blades isn't a big deal but I knew that eventually I wanted a 66 with the RH tilt mechanism.
Inca did make a later version that had a stationary table. I'd evaluate how much of what you do on the TS you might do just as well on the bandsaw, a chopsaw or a shaper with a much smaller footprint. If you're just sawing fretslots then an 8" saw might be plenty.

[John Sonksen]

I looked at Inca saws way back when and decided that the tilting table thing was just too awkward and potentially dangerous to mess with. They also tend to have 20mm Euro arbors. Drilling out all your blades isn't a big deal but I knew that eventually I wanted a 66 with the RH tilt mechanism.
Inca did make a later version that had a stationary table. I'd evaluate how much of what you do on the TS you might do just as well on the bandsaw, a chopsaw or a shaper with a much smaller footprint. If you're just sawing fretslots then an 8" saw might be plenty.

Yeah I've used the tilting bed table saws at work and they definitely take some getting used to. I think the biggest thing is thinking about your cuts differently to deal with the added gravity variable, but honestly I don't like doing a lot of angled ripping generally anyways so I'm okay with it being for 90 degree cuts predominantly. I also read about the 20mm arbors and it's a downside for sure, but I've got a saw shop close who'll knock those out for me pretty quick I think. I think honestly I'm just kind of fascinated with INCA stuff, I love the look and scale of their tools and I've heard nothing but good things about their precision. Really I'm pretty lucky because for the most part I can take any real big stuff down to my work and deal with it on the big saws there. I think down the road I may look at a cabinet saw if I end up with a larger work space but I'm really talking myself into this INCA right now, lol. For the most part I'm going to be doing simple stuff, ripping thin stock for bindings, some thicker stuff to glue up into bodies and laminations for my necks. I think it'll do the job for that stuff fine.

[David King]

You might contact Eagle tools in LA and see what they have left in spare parts for these.

[John Sonksen]

Actually I did some searching around for recent price comps and it sounds like the asking price is a bit steep. They don't come up for sale a lot and so I only had 4 that I found but one went for $375 with the complete mortising attachment, another for $500 with the jointer/planer and dust collector, and another sold three years ago for $700 with the mortiser.

This one was going for $500 without any of the mortising setup, and while I don't have an immediate need for that it seemed like the price was real high. I offered him $250 and he declined, saying it was worth more. I think it's ultimately worth what someone will pay and the comps tell me I'm being realistic.

Cool little saws, don't know if it's worth it at that price. The search continues...

[Joel Nowland]

I have owned/used everything from small Craftsman saws to Olivers.

I owned a Ryobi BT3000 when they first came out and it was fine for small light work such as guitar building but if you ever want to cut plywood, MDF or large heavy planks it won't work very well. The sliding miter is nice but will come off when mitering long stock. If Ryobi would beef it u, just a bit, it would be a great saw.

I suggest hunting down a used Powermatic first (left tilting blade is nice) or a used Unisaw if no Powermatic is found.

Joel Nowland

[Bob Hammond]

On CL, I found a 1956 Yates American M1701 left-tilt 8" saw/10" sander/4"jointer machine for $200. The 4" jointer is not useful (the beds are warped), but the sander works fine. The saw itself is very nice - the arbor is in excellent shape and cuts 2-3/8" deep, and the original 3/4HP totally enclosed motor runs very nice. These saws were made for highschool training shops, and for use on Navy ships, I've been told, because they were sturdily built (it is battleship quality) and compact. The only annoyance is that the miter slots are 5/16" deep.

[Bob Hammond]

here's a pic. The wings on the far right of the table accept a panel to install a router that can be used with the saw's fence. I wonder if I could straighten/align the jointer's beds by shimming them where they attach to the top. Any thoughts on that idea?

[John Sonksen]

I did it. I got the INCA and found a mortising setup for it on ebay. It's going to take a little work to get it all cleaned up but all in all it's in good shape. The more I looked at the contractor saws the more weary I got about the trunnion assembly on most of those, and the last thing I wanted was to get into a wonky saw that I'd have to spend too much time checking and dialing in all the time. I had another consideration too, my electrical setup. I just moved into an older house that we're renting and while my new landlord loves that I am putting a shop in the garage, the house has some older breaker panels and getting more powerful electrical lines out to the garage will be a major PITA. For now I'm stuck with 110v out there needed a saw that pulls less than 20 amps on startup. Looks like I'll be needing my blades bore's changed to 20mm but that doesn't sound like that big of a deal. I'll keep posting things as I get it cleaned up and in good order.

[Chuck Raudonis]

It never happened if there aren't pictures posted.

[John Sonksen]

It never happened if there aren't pictures posted.

Will do tonight! (It's currently in pieces though so it'll be awhile to see it in all of its glory!)

[Chuck Raudonis]

I was off on vacation this week. Decided to buy myself a present!

Sawstop contractors saw with the upgraded Biesemeyer style fence. I replaced the extension table with a router table from MLCS. It worked out nice. Since I had that leftover extension table with no where to put it I fashioned a bracket and support legs for the back of the saw, routed a couple of slots for the miter gauge bars and turned it into an out feed table!

Can't wait to get this thing dusty.

[Bob Hammond]

Nice. When the budget permits, I'll upgrade. I wonder if they'll come up with a retrofit for existing popular saws.

Because of worker safety-liability issues, eventually I think all commercial shops will buy these and retire their Unisaws & 66s. In the future I think you'll see many of these used saws available at reasonable cost in good condition.