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wood for solid linings (non-kerfed)

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wood for solid linings (non-kerfed)

Postby Rick Jordan » Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:36 pm

Has anyone used aromatic cedar for making solid linings? I'm building an OM sized guitar, and I think the pleasant aroma would be a plus - just not sure of the structural properties of the wood.
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Re: wood for solid linings (non-kerfed)

Postby Waddy Thomson » Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:23 am

I'm not an expert in this area, but it seems to me that that type of cedar is pretty brittle and "splitty". I don't think I'd want a wood that splits that easily for lining.
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Re: wood for solid linings (non-kerfed)

Postby Clay Schaeffer » Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:39 am

Hi Rick,
I think aromatic (eastern red) cedar would work fine for solid linings. I would prebend it before installing it. I think it is a bit tougher than spruce, which is often used for linings.
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Re: wood for solid linings (non-kerfed)

Postby Jeremy Elliott » Sat Mar 10, 2012 3:50 pm

I've used it. Yes, it's splitty, but that's nothing you can't work around with linings. And yes, pre-bending will make your life easier.
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Re: wood for solid linings (non-kerfed)

Postby Alan Carruth » Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:42 pm

Most softwoods are pretty hard to bend: they tend to crush badly on the inside of the bend. You might have some luck laminating it.

When I first read the header, I thought of 'cedro': South American 'cedar', which is a hardwood, although it can be pretty soft. I've used that for bent liners, and it works, up to about 5mm thick.

Beware of making the bent liners too narrow. I bought a classical guitar in Spain when I was in the Navy, and left it at home when I went on one cruise. When I got back it had suffered a bit from low humidity: the back had shrunk and pulled away from the liner in the lower bout on one quadrant. The back liner was so narrow that, by the time they had cut the rabbets fot eh binding and purfling, there was only about 1mm of gluing surface around the edge of the back. Not enough...

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Re: wood for solid linings (non-kerfed)

Postby Randy Roberts » Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:25 pm

I've used spanish cedar on most of mine, which is pretty aromatic, and at least mine was also very splintery. But by making 3 layers laminated, wetting well before prebending, and prebending, it has worked fine, and can give you plenty of gluing face.
By making each layer a different height (and sometimes different woods) it can give you a maybe little fancier lining when viewed from the soundhole.
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Re: wood for solid linings (non-kerfed)

Postby Rodger Knox » Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:45 pm

I've been using laminated linings on the last few, both oak and poplar, and prebending them. I've been using four or five about 1/16" thick, the first two are 5/16" tall and the rest are 1/4". It takes a little longer to glue them on, but they REALLY stiffen up the sides. I originally used reverse kerfed linings, which also stiffens the sides nicely, but they were always breaking. Cutting out to tuck the braces was also more difficult.
A man hears what he wants to hear, and disreguards the rest. Paul Simon
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Re: wood for solid linings (non-kerfed)

Postby Craig Bumgarner » Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:50 pm

I use two pieces of basswood, 3/32" x 4" x 32", bend them roughly to shape over a hot pipe, laminate them in my side laminating mold and then rip them to height for linings. I get enough bindings for multiple guitars. Works great, very light, very solid. Accurate shape and they hold shape well during the installation process. Suppose it helps that I have the side mold already and am set up to laminate the shapes. The basswood comes from an on-line shop that sells thin pieces of bass wood for hobbyists.

CB
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Re: wood for solid linings (non-kerfed)

Postby Barry Daniels » Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:54 am

Craig, can you tell me the name of your source for the thin basswood?
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Re: wood for solid linings (non-kerfed)

Postby Craig Bumgarner » Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:25 am

http://www.balsawoodinc.com/basswoodsheets

They have many, many thicknesses, widths and lengths and it takes a while to sort through, so have patience, but I suspect you will find what you need there. My ordering experience with them has been good. I'd order some extra because a couple pieces I got had wind checks and broke easily when bending, After the first piece broke, I had a good look and I could see the check in a couple other pieces. I worked around them by putting them in less critical locations of the bends. I laminated the linings, so I didn't feel bad about letting the wind checked piece into the guitar.
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Re: wood for solid linings (non-kerfed)

Postby Simon Magennis » Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:36 am

Basswood (known as linden or lime in Europe) has long been an extremely popular linings wood in the central European tradition. I have seen one pro here bend a board about the size of a guitar side and 4-5mm thick and then saw out slices as linings after bending to shape (on a bending iron).
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Re: wood for solid linings (non-kerfed)

Postby David Malicky » Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:23 pm

Heavy (and stiff) linings give more impedance for top to push against, helping reflect vibrations and increasing the 'main top' active area. Trevor Gore's book has details. I use oak -- 1/8" bends easily.
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Re: wood for solid linings (non-kerfed)

Postby Mike Sandor » Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:39 pm

I have not considered oak until reading your post. I need to come up with a lining process that will let me incorporate varying widths and heights as I am doing most of my builds with multiple contours for leg, chest and arms. Doing this type of lining would simplify for sure. Any drawbacks using multiple layers of oak and walnut. I am thinking it would look pretty. You guys got me thinking.
Thanks.....
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Re: wood for solid linings (non-kerfed)

Postby Randy Roberts » Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:54 am

Mike,
As far as drawbacks with oak, the relative large pores might affect bending with strips as thin as I picture being used, but I've never used oak so don't let me stop you.

I don't know that you should look at using multiple laminated strip solid linings as simplifying things for you. You are adding bending of multiple strips, multiple glue-ups, multiple glue clean ups, etc., all to replace a simple glue up of kerfed linings. If you do a poor job of gluing things up, you are now doing a poor job of gluing things up multiple times.

That said, I've found I really like the opportunity it gives for a little visual interest in place of plain old kerfed linings, regardless of any real or imagined sound benefits.
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Re: wood for solid linings (non-kerfed)

Postby Rodger Knox » Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:29 pm

I've used oak 1/16" thick, works like a charm. The ease of bending was what attracted me to oak initially.
Yes, it's a bit of bending and a lot of glueing. I use 16 or 18 1/16"thick strips, and I throw them on the bender right after I bend my sides. They're so easy to bend, it really doesn't take much time, and oak has almost no springback.
As far as the glue-up, I don't wait until one layer is completely dry before glueing on the next layer, and the clamps go right back on. It takes me twice as long as kerfed lining, however, I can make the solid strips in less than half the time it takes to make kerfed lining on the bandsaw. I don't much care for making kerfed lining on the bandsaw, I think of it is the death of 1000 cuts. By the way, that's about how many it takes for a dred. :D
Yeah, I know StewMac sells it, but I start with lumber, not premade parts.
A man hears what he wants to hear, and disreguards the rest. Paul Simon
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Re: wood for solid linings (non-kerfed)

Postby Steve Senseney » Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:08 pm

I have little to add, except that I like the solid linings.

I have used spruce and red cedar, along with ash, oak, osage, and walnut. Mixing hard woods and conifers.

As the pieces are quite thin, it is really easy to bend and glue well.

I think the sides seem more rigid than with kerfed linings. Whether that is important, or an improvement, I am not sure.
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