What finish in a hospital setting? - created 06-06-2006
Lau, Matthew - 06/06/2006.17:53:24
Not to hijack this thread, but what finish (easy to use, acoutically ok) would you recommend for a hospital setting?
I'm hoping to use my summer uke project as a dental patch adams eventually.
-matt
French Polish.
Tru-Oil would be pretty beneign as well.
Huh? Why would lacquer, varnish, or any other cured finish be unacceptable in a hospital setting?
Might want to go with something that is kinda' water proof.
Swish-and-spit can get a bit out of control I'd imagine.
Since it would be impossible to sterilize a wood uke, I would think any thinly applied hard type of food grade finish would suffice. What is meant by easy? No spraying? Rub on? Easy is relative, mileage varies.
thinly applied hard type of food grade finish
Do you plan on having them bite down on the uke?
And do you plan to do the finish-work at the hospital? Otherwise I don't know what it is you're asking. Are you concerned about out-gassing after using nitro?
Gosh, isn't the answer obvious?
Porcelain veneer!
In my really-real job we make a lot of hospital cabinets. They only want plastic laminate or solid surface material. There's your answer, you gotta build a formica uke...
Sorry for the confusion, and thanks for moving the thread.
My intent is to bring it into the hospital setting. While hopefully there'll be minimal licking of the ukes, I can't be too sure in the pedo ward. :p
I think that most cured finishes would work, but I don't know much about this.
Some observations: a number of places use a bleach solution, some proprietary mix like Birex, or someother stuff.
I was just wondering about what (easy to apply finish) would work, and if anyone's had experience with hospitals and fretted instruments--specifically with disinfecting one. Do you think that FP might get messed up by a well intending passer-by disinfecting with 10% methanol wipes?
-matt
ps. Easy as in "less than 60 hours of hand-rubbing" and "will not kill an asthmatic in close quarters," so nitro won't work for me.
pps. Nice pun on the veneers, but I won't be making them until next year. And I don't think the class furnace will be big enough for even a uke!
Rustin's plastic coating is a 2 pack finish which can be applied by brush or sprayed, builds quickly, and is used on counter tops and other high traffic bits of furniture.
I'd have no qualms wiping it down with methanol after it's cured - I've cleaned epoxy squeezeout off Rustin's finished guitars. It's also a tried and tested guitar finish - I've used it on electric guitars, and Stuart Ketchin speaks very highly of it for acoustics.
Just had a formica uke in the shop, sounded great.
If you want something disinfectable then I think a catalyzed finish of some sort is the ticket. I know that UV polyester can be cleaned with acetone (and is, as a matter of course, by some prominent luthiers). Given this, a catalyzed polyester can probably take the same treatment.
As for the methanol...I really hope they don't have methanol wipes in the hospital, the stuff is very nasty. Absorbed through the skin and by inhalation as well as ingestion, causes blindness, coma, and death. I could be off but I'd bet isopropanol is the stuff on the wipes.
"Do you plan on having them bite down on the uke?"
Not really Bill, the reason I said that is, I have fabricated many things that were intended to be used around food and some that were for medical uses. I guarantee that some bacteria will be found where fingers and a fretted instrument meet.
A waterproof finish is the basic acceptable finish type when trying to avoid spreading bugs. I do think a formica uke is the smart way to go. I would seal all the wood parts inside and out. The only other thing I can think of that would work is a fiberglass instrument. That will take some real good skills in fiberglass fabrication and finishing. There are resins and some gelcoats made for food service that would do this quite well. I see a "market" for hospital instruments here. Most likely a good travel instrument as well. Tough as nails.
I would be talking to someone who knows the hygiene requirements for the intended areas it would be used. That would be where I would start. If more than a few were to be made I would make a female mold and make hollow fiberglass instruments. Any solid color or graphic finish could be possible and it would be easy to disinfect them. Tangerine metalflake anyone?
Thanks for your contributions--and yes, it is isopropanol (sorry, too much caffeine).
After finals are up, I'll probably call up the head of the musical therapy section (I've heard that it exists here), and also bugging the head of the dental and hospital clinic disinfectant protocals.
That being said, in the end I think I'll just use something like Tru-oil. I hope I didn't waste your time.
-matt
ps. As for a hospital instrument, I think it exists already--ever tried a "fluke?"
ever tried a "fluke?"
No. Please elaborate.
ver tried a "fluke?"
I've heard in some hospitals the doctors form music groups and play Trocar and Fluke duets.
Google be thy friend. Look for "Fluke ukulele" or flea market music. Searching on just "Fluke" gets you info on very good digital multimeters. (If you're curious, you can look up a Trocar as well, and learn about embalming.)
I have a tenor Fluke, and it's a pretty decent instrument, but I personally find it difficult to hold in position because of the weird shape. I have a crummy sound clip on my website (on the Uke #1 Building Notes page, at the bottom) if you want to listen to one.
Or you could try to find an all-plastic Macaferri or TV Pal uke.
The trocar is a wind instrument, but because doctors spend so much time training to do medicine, most players really suck.
"I'm hoping to use my summer uke project as a dental patch adams eventually." When I read this in the original post, I thought somebody was pulling my leg, as they say. As a research assistant professor of experimental surgery and physiology of 25 years experience, I have accumulated some knowledge with regard to sterilizing/disinfecting unusual objects. Obviously, I can't guarantee the following advice is comprehensive or appropriate to every situation, but:
If you follow the simplest precautions of cleanliness, (i.e. washing hands and cleaning the frets and strings every day), then I doubt that your instrument would be a significant source of infection in a hospital. For practical purposes, I'd suggest that you finish the object so that it is very smooth and mostly impervious to water. Bacteria hide in micro-crevices and require water to proliferate, if not to survive. If your instrument could stand a daily wipedown with a disinfecting solution of diluted bleach, then most problems could be avoided.
When I read this in the original post, I thought somebody was pulling my leg, as they say.
I can see why...but nope, I'm dead serious.
However, I think it might take me a while to get there. Most of the time I find that somethings done already or not too useful for that situation (for instance I talked to the head of the dental pedo department and he liked the idea but wanted to use the ukes as a wall hanger). Nevertheless, I'd like to use this as a constructive outlet for my luthery lust--hopefully some kid will like it too.
I'll make these two for now as prototypes for the staff to test. Since most of the kids here have some developmental problems (and like to smash stuff), I might build with micarta in the future.
I think that I'll study, practice, and build the ukes this summer. However, the Patch Adams bit will be a bit more difficult. Toeing the line between professionalism and friendliness is increadibly hard (especially in California, where one is prone to be sued).
-matt
ps. Anyways, the pediatrics guy wanted me to make some research project out of this...the impact of music instruments on dental related stress...which I might sometime if I get the energy to apply for a grant. Any ideas for a placebo?-->wait, I've got to build the things first.
pss. Bob, thanks for the tip. Can I simply fill the pores w/pumice after sealing with shellac?