UK Lacquer supplies? - created 11-26-2010

Perkins, Alan - 11/26/2010.12:35:36

Hi everyone. My favorite spray lacquer is now no longer being imported to the UK (BEHLEN string instrument lacquer). Any other suggestions of appropriate lacquers? Thanks in advance of replies.

I checked the behlen web site. It looks like you are able to order lacquer from them? Is there something I missed?

Hi Enrico, I was at the North of England wood show and was informed by the Behlen UK staff of the news. Any suggestions on an alternative? Apparently a water based version will be available soon.

I see... Then I cannot help you. But I can tell you my experience if you like. Few years ago I ordered from UK some Behlen lacquer. The problem was shipping flammable items. Shipping was so expensive that I still have goose bumps if I think about it. But I chose to pay the shipping cost because I thought that that was THE lacquer I had to use to finish guitars. After that I realized that many hardware stores around here sell high quality lacquer that is absolutely comparable to Behlen if not superior. One example is Lechler. I don't know if this brand is available in UK. I found other lacuqer brands that are absolutely ok for guitars and that are very cheap. So my suggestion is to take a look around your area. You should find some interesting products.

Alan, Tonetech in the UK now do a range of nitro lacquer; I've not tried it though so have no idea what it's like.

Hello Alan, I've just started using Morrells AL234m clear gloss, nitro lacquer,in a 400ml spray can. It is quite inexpensive, and not much more than four of our big value coins! ( including VAT )

I get from John Penny Restoration Ltd., in Southampton, UK. They have a web site, as does Morrells.

There are also satin, semi-matt and matt finishes available.

You may be able to find a local supplier of Morrells products?

I don't live in the UK (I'm in Canada). But, when I began to build, I opted for a local lacquer here (Canlak) that was "furniture" grade. It went on very nicely (with my HVLP system), cured quickly and clear, sanded and buffed out wonderfully. However, typically after 6 months to a year, a few small finish cracks (some not so small) appeared, typically at the binding or adjacent to the bridge. After ruling out other possible causes of the finish cracks (e.g., too thick a finish, exposure to cold/heat extremes) I decided to try Behlens (it sells under the Mohawk name here in Canada). And so far, no finish cracks. My thinking is that this lacquer has more elasticizers in it than furniture grade lacquer, and is more able to withstand the inevitable swelling and shrinking in the wood. So, although you don't have access to Behlens any more, you might inquire into which local alternatives have those extra elasticizers to ensure you don't experience the finish cracks that I did. Unfortunately, I am not a chemist and so I can't tell you what this elasticizer ingredient is (let alone the amount needed) that ensures the finish stays flexible. Anyone else know what that component is?

Gerry, this is a good point. I had not thought about this aspect. I guess in my case I was just lucky. Nothing bad happened to my lacquer finish. But you are right. One might want to make sure that other brands are ok for guitars. Maybe other luthiers have experience with them. Are you sure that problem was not because of cold temperature in Canada?

Enrico, I don't think the finish cracks were due to exposure to cold temperatures. The guitars rarely left the house - which is properly heated and humidified year-round. I am convinced it was due to the use of lacquer that was not flexible enough to withstand the small but inevitable movement in wood over time. The Mohawk lacquer is noticeably softer - it takes longer to cure, tends to ball-up a bit if sanding too soon, and does not buff as well. But, no finish cracks ... so far.

Gerry, you are probably correct: lacquer intended for musical instruments does have elasticizers added for the purpose of preventing finish cracks. You could always try adding an elasticizer to normal lacquers. A non-drying oil might work, or you could try a soft tree resin like larch turpentine. It would take some experimentation to find what works, and in what quantity.

Hi Andy. For me the problem is solved (Knock on wood) as Mohawk (Behlens) is available in Canada. But for the original poster, an additive such as you've described may be beneficial to complement the locally available lacquers in the UK.

Yes, that was a collective "you".

Hi Andy, I've used Behlen before and tonetech, both have been good. Also check out Manchester guitar tech! He sell's nitro, but it its £15 a pop! Very good though, but cant say flat out that its better than any others!

I have been using a polishing nitro lacquer by Votteler (a German company present in UK) that is extremely flexible and well adapted for guitars. It polishes well and its most important problem is that it is not easy to sand dry (Reference 04005-1-0000) Since many among the most common nitrocellulose plasticizers (phthalates) were banned in the EC in 2008, it is possible that this lacquer has a different formulation now.

I have also used Morrells 5901/450 (Morrells is in UK). This is a catalyzed lacquer (called AC lacquers in UK, Conversion Varnishes un USA) that is also extremely flexible. I have tried other lacquers of this type but they are brittle -- not this one! It can be used exactly the same as nitrocellulose lacquer, but the much higher solids makes it faster to build. Coats fuse perfectly without any witness lines, it sands dry or wet perfectly, it cures hard and is solvent resistant (although it can be stripped with regular methylene chloride strippers) and has an incredible gloss and transparency. It can be repaired and you won't be able to tell where the repair is because it fuses perfectly (I had to correct a problem one month after application and it fused perfectly simply sanding with P600 before spraying -- I don't know if one year later it will be the same). It is cheap also. It also has some bad things: you will need good ventilation because it emits formaldehyde when it cures (although most other lacquers emit other harmful chemicals). Some woods (I am thinking of ebony) must not be sanded finer than P120. It seems to be very sensitive to contamination in the compressed air (I use a good moisture/oil trap and don't have problems). Its cure time is similar to nitro (ready to polish in three or four weeks) and, similarly, it will sink during the following months (but not as much as nitro). Although the instructions mention that the color of some woods like maple may be affected by the acid catalyst, I have never experienced this problem. Finally, you will need a stainless steel gun (the acid catalyst may attack aluminum or other common gun materials).