Some examples of members' headless guitars with and without headless tuners, and links to plans and suppliers [Pictures] - created 02-23-2010

Freemond, Robert - 02/23/2010.13:52:49

I'm planing a project (travel guitar) & need headless tuners. I've looked on line, but so far have not found any for sale. I will consider making them myself if I can come up with a good plan. Does anyone know of either ?

You mean like these?

Yes Jamie, exactly like these. My search never found this place, however I did find these http://www.dguitarparts.com/bridges.htm (scroll down- center page SB350) yours are a little more than I wanted to spend, but I suppose the quality demands it. Thanks

Try this:

Hey Robert,

I used the Steinberger tuners along the lines of the link that Deb posted. It works great, though it is a pain in the butt sometimes to reach all the way around back to tune, and with the tuners that close together. It stays in tune great though, even with the plain old wood archtop style bridge, and is a really light system. The third pic you can see how I just ended the strings in some grooves I cut in the end of the "headstock". Works great.

The back. Don't mind the open electronics cavity.

string end

I've just received my ABM tuners from Germany and they look well made. There are some pretty nice ones made in Scandinavia too but they are even more expensive. But, I made some "travel type" guitars a while back and made do with conventional tuners, see photo's.

These are both interesting solutions - thanks - I like your Head Stock idea daniel, I thought I’d have to make one out of Brass or Alum. Murray, If you have Dimensions, or other photos handy I would like to see them.

Robert,

Most existing headless tuner options are quite pricey. Someone further up the thread linked to some ABM parts sold by Allparts. Those work well, but cost a lot. Pitch Perfect Music also sells those, the ones on Ebay now are a bit cheaper than the Allparts link..

Strandberg build some very cool looking headless tuners/saddles/bridges, but the prices might even trump ABM.

Toone & Townsend appears to be about to put a headless tuning system on the market, but it's anyone's guess as to price.

Also, there are usually a couple of pot metal headless bridges on Ebay at any given time.

Check out Floyd Rose's double-ball-end bridge, could work well for a headless design...

I used the Steinberger tuners along the lines of the link that Deb posted.

Just an idea, one could do sort of a string through and have the strings attache at the back of the guitar and have the tuners on top. Of course, you could use zither pins too.

Making something like this is not too difficult or expensive. Roller bridge and locking nut and you have a headless system.

Marko

I have been using conventional tuners on my TranjoCaster headless electric banjos. They work very well but the sanding and finishing of the tuner area is a pain. After trying a set of the Steinberger gearless tuners, I am modifying my design to use those instead, along the lines of Daniel Hehnke's design shown earlier.

Another angle...

Sam,

Yeah Marko, but where to get those knurled knobs? Do you have a source?

My source for the knobs is a friend who turns them on his metal lathe. I remember McMastercarr or something like that has some knobs that could be used. This side of the pond I haven't found too many usable knobs. I guess it shouldn't cost a fortune to have those knobs turned.

Marko

I have a turret lathe set up for those now and they go pretty quick. There is another German co that does headless hardware or was doing it last I checked http://www.ets-hardware.com/index.php?page=products

I've been using some nice looking thumb screws from MSC that should also work:

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/N2DRVSH?PACACHE=000000132095093

David - the MSC link didn't work.

Sam really cool! I once owned a BC Rich 6/10 string double neck, and on the ten string neck, the doubled strings were tuned in that same manner! I think on one particular model (the Bich) they still do the 12 string that way....

Try this one and scroll down to the section where you'll see the link to the Tuning Tailstop (.PDF):

http://buildingtheergonomicguitar.com/2008/04/klein-guitar-project-2.html

Here,

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMAKA=62227145

These are MSC part number 62227145

Long stainless steel thumb screws 10-32 thread, 5/8" dia knurled heads.

What tuner ratio does a 10-32 thread work out to be similar to? I've considered making some headless tuners for a project I have in mind since the ABM stuff seems a bit on the pricy side, but I thought I would need a custom fine-pitch thread to get a good tuner ratio.

Well a bass string needs about 1/8" of pull to come up to pitch. That's about 4 revolutions at 32 tpi. I use 40 tpi for my tuners and they are very easy to turn and I can easily dial in to 1 cent resolution. ABM uses M3x.50 threads which is 50.8 tpi. I'm not sure about guitar strings, they are shorter so perhaps they are more sensitive?

I would say get 40 tpi if you can but it's not available unless you are willing to cope with a tiny knurled knob which is going to be a much more difficult problem for most hands.

I think I'll be talking to a friend of mine who is a machinist about some of this. It sounds to me like the 32 tpi is going to be a bit coarse and the 50s are likely to be ideal for guitar. I'm thinking that if I can get knobs made I can use whatever screws I want.

Now if only I could figure out a way to get some more spacing between the knobs...

M3 works fine on guitar tuners. Easy to turn and tune. You can get more spacing by stacking the knobs so that E, D and B are with longer shaft and A, G and high E are with shorter shaft. Something like this (sorry for the crappy "pic"). By using short and long bushings on the shafts it should be easy to make.

Marko

Pic.

Good thought, Marko. That would allow for slightly bigger knobs, equaling finer control as well.

I did and 8 string headless bass like this many years ago. It worked out great but was a bit delicate on the tail end.

I just thought I'd mention that Hipshot products has just released their own headless bass hardware this month. From what I understand it will be available in at least 4 string spacings for bass instruments with 4-9 strings (in chrome , black and gold). I imagine most of these 60 permutations will only be via special order.

I was just going to mention the new Hipshot system. It looks so nice that I want to make a headless bass now.

It looks pretty utilitarian to me.

Well a bass string needs about 1/8" of pull to come up to pitch

I have a homemade headless ten string guitar. The bridge has about 3/4" of pull / travel and sometimes that is a hair too little (and that is with pre-stretching the strings). I am designing something similar and giving the tuner 1-1.5" of travel. Note that the ten string is 34" scale. Perhaps that is why it needs more travel.

3/4" seems like a lot to me. I can actually string up a regular guitar so close that it comes up to pitch before the string is adequately locked on the tuning post. I have to make a special effort to give myself enough slack to get the half wrap I need. I can't imagine a string actually stretching more than a half-inch unless it is nylon or gut.

Mark,

Perhaps I am doing something wrong but I did have to add shims at the ball end on a couple of strings to get enough string tension.

David, maybe you are right. Maybe the loops I made were slipping and it was not string stretching.

The headless bridge prices I have seen lately are insane, and if you need 8 or 10 tuners, that can also be a problem. Here are a couple of lower cost solutions I have tried. Not too attractive, but functional. And cheap.

Pretty clever improvisation there! I think I would personally look for finer threads, but if you are able to tune adequately with what you have that's what counts.

Looking at the way you have your tuners set up I'm assuming that you use the factory ball end at the headstock then make a loop for the tuner end. That is likely the source of your long take-up, as it will take a lot of pull to tighten up the loop. My only thought would be to make a twisting jig that will allow you to twist those very tightly at a length that just barely reaches your pin when the tuner is all the way forward.

My thinking is more along the lines of the factory ball at the tuner end and a set screw at the headstock end to hold the string.

For guitar strings I've used a very simple locking mechanism with a pan head allen screw that fits down into a tight pocket, I just loop the string around the screw and tighten the screw (think wiring up an outlet). I used this for a 6 string lapsteel guitar last year and it works very well for strings up to about .050" in diameter.

Mark, I've got to say I'm really impressed with your versions. Very innovative use of off the shelf parts.

My thinking is more along the lines of the factory ball at the tuner end and a set screw at the headstock end to hold the string.

That is how my first one was done, with an ABM bridge and a floyd locking nut. For the cigar box and acoustic style guitars I have been building, I put slots in the top of the neck that the string ball slides into. Since I like to travel with these instruments, being able to detach the neck and quickly slide out the strings is very convenient.

Here's a backpacker I threw together about 15 years ago. The tuners cost seventy cents apiece back then. For the interested, I used nylon washers around the body of the perpendicular screw and between the screw head and the body of the turnbuckle. Smoothed everything out nicely. They work great, BTW.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/totallyunmemorable/Pic-Genesbackpacker.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/totallyunmemorable/Pic-Genesbackpacker_2.jpg

Very interesting, Gene.

Gene, nice idea ! My approach requires an allen wrench. Yours does not.