Finding a printing method for grill cloth - created 11-14-2011

Gates, James - 11/14/2011.02:24:22

I am looking for a method to print my logo onto grill cloth.

To my mind the obvious methods would be silkscreen, fabric pen and inkjet or laser transfer.

Basically want to put on grill cloth my guitar name and logo.

I would think the challenge is to find grill cloth that will accept

printing on. Just wonder if there any suggestions or experience that will help me find a suitable grill cloth and then a method to print?

This problem might be solved with finding a reg fabric at a fabric store that will function as a grill cloth. I am open to suggestions and advice.

My wife has done this to put photos/logos from a word doc and html files onto quilt panels. She is not around to ask at the moment but this link may help. From what I've seen her do, I don't think it matters what sort of fabric it is as long as you use the iron on backing.

http://www.rebeccachulew.com/ezine/printingonfabric.html

Google "iron on transfer paper".

James are you wanting to do this before or after stretching the close onto the frame?

For a one-off there are the paint markers that might work well. For multiples you really can't beat the silk screen for simplicity and speed.

The iron transfers leave a sound muffling non permeable plastic layer on the cloth. Might be a good thing if you got "ice pick" issues. I would try wood cut or linoleum cut printing

Steve:

I would stretch the grill cloth first, if not then it would distort when I stretch. I can experiement with different methods, but that takes time and money and this should be a simple thing.

James, are you intending to do just a single color? Or a multi-colored print?

I plan to do single color.

This is the project. I love the outrageous design of Gretsch guitars. I used to collect the old ones. I never thought the old ones were well built compared to other mfg however, they took chances with design and looked different.

so I build guitars to hang on the wall and impress my friends. They are not for sale. I call them Greatscht Guitars because the name could look like Gretsch from a distance. Gretsch has that great gretsch sound, my guitars say "That's Greatscht!"

So, I need a Greascht Amp. Leo Fender took RCA radio amp designs (as did most everybody else) modified them for guitar. Jim Marshall took a Fender Bassman to modify and Mesa Boogie amps took Fender champs and modified them. So, I am taking a Gretsch G5222 amp which is identical to the Fender Champion 600 modding it in a variety of ways and putting it into a new cabinet. The new pine cabinet design draws from old 50's Gretsch amps. Many of those amps had a steer head I assume silk screened on the grill cloth. My Greatscht "No BS" Guitar Amp will have a similar steerhead and the NO BS logo with the circle and the line thru it. The steer head of the logo will pay homage and honor the old 50s design, but will be changed.

I can pay homage and honor old designs, but I see no reason to copy them directly. I have to put my stamp on them. The No BS amp as does the Gretsch amp has one control, a volume control.

So, it is about the person that has technique to get their sound.

I hope knowing the project will help with the answers. Not wanting the thread to get diverted let me say upfront that to base designs and use elements from classic guitars and amps is protected under the copyright law known as "Fair Use" in addition I have a right to copy anything (which I am not doing) for my own personal use and not for sale. I am however building guitars and amps that are not for sale from Gretsch or any other manufacturer. To steal from one is plagiarism, but to steal from many is genius.

I think I have found the answer.

Grill cloth is frequently polyester.

For a transfer method dye sublimation is the only option.

In my application since I am using the NO BS logo which consists of a red circle with a forward slash (to symbolize no)and then a crouching steer. I will print the elements separately and then apply them separately.

Thanks for the help and advice

Show us your method.

Steve

"I will print the elements separately and then apply them separately."

If that works great, if not, I order more speaker cloth and try something different.

I just thought there might be someone with experience that I could benefit from

James - I think what Steve was getting at is that we're now hoping to learn from your experience. Please don't leave us hanging, post a photo and let us know how it comes out. Thanks.

I have never seen one of those amps in person with the steer head, but in photos it sure looks stenciled and spray painted or hand-painted to me. I would think it would be pretty easy to make a stencil and just lightly spray it on the cloth with white or off-white paint and an air brush, OR brush with an artist's brush and some fabric paint.

The grille cloth looks pretty smooth - that would be key to the whole thing I think?

This is a pretty typical situation for me. In that I come up with stuff that others are not doing and so am blazing a trail. I assume that all of you have more experience than me and know how to do this stuff. However, I see no reason to build a guitar or amp or whatever that is available commercially. I cannot draw very well, so don't think of myself as artistic, but I keep screwing with things till it works.

In this situation and similar to other situations, it may be that the answer is to put the printing in an area that will not affect the sound.

It also may be that I order extra grill cloth and experiment. Thomas Edison was asked about the 1000 failures that led to the invention of the light bulb. He replied they were not failures since he knows 1000 things that don't work.

In the same way, I feel pressure to get it right the first time and prove I am a genius and a great craftsman. Anyway this is my mentality.

I am working on 3 guitars right now and an amp. The first guitar have been working on for over ten yrs. It is a couple of thousand miles away where a leather craftsman is making a carved leather pickguard for it. When it returns It will be strung up, set up and hung on the wall.

The next guitar is about half done, but still trying to figure out stuff for it. I wanted a white flame maple top. No one here could help me, so figured (pun) that I will stain the grain tobacco and then like a sunburst with just white be transparent in the center fading to opaque at the edge. It will have built in electronics that mate to the amp. My guitars are more show, than go, but they do play.

Then I am always planning the next project. So in the case (pun) of the grill cloth, I have yet to make the case or figure out how to make the amp, but I am in the design stage, but what I want is as I design, I also build so when I get hung up with one thing not knowing how to do it, I am building the other things and taking chances.

I wish I were more prolific with all these things, but taking chances means mistakes and expense and I will share as things are finished.

back to topic. I guess they are silk screened on the fabric, but what fabric?

Most the grill cloth nowdays is made out of polyester, I have a heat press for t shirts that I dont know how to use, I know that often they spray poly onto a cotton shirt to make it transfer better. So my current plan of attack is to create the name and logo in layers, but instead of combining the layers in the photo edit program, to print them out separately and then heat transfer them to the grill cloth. The cloth will be stretched first. Then likely will design the amp case so that the transfer doesn't interfere with the sound.

I also will try silk screening, but inkjet transfer will be easier.

Another way to do this is to etch the design into brass like making a pc board (printed circuit bd not political correct or personal computer) Then attach it to the grill. Google Jake and steampunk for info on this method.

James, I think the easiest option would be to pre-stretch the grill cloth onto it's frame, and then use a stencil and spray paint, making sure to do light passes to avoid bleed.

I can't imagine silk-screening, iron transfers, fabric pens, or even dye sublimation working well on the coarse fabric normally used for grill cloths.

The stencil and spray paint sounds like the simplest, I will give that a try first.