Does anyone have HVLP system recommendations? - created 01-11-2004
Hehnke, Daniel - 01/11/2004.17:53:24
< 1 Guitar/Year
Well I've been looking in the library at everything I can find about finishing with nitro laquer because I'm about to try it for the first time, but I'm having a hard time finding what people use to spray with. Has anyone had any great experiences with any relatively cheap HVLP Spray systems or other spray systems that they would recommend? I'm putting out low volume, about 1 guitar every month or so, so I don't need an industrial strength unit, and my funds are pretty low. I do have access to a good compressor, so I just need the spraying part. Thanks in advance for any help!
I use a saga , not a cheapie but I do have a cheapie for the sealer . It works well and I see no reason that it can't work for you. Most spraying is experience. Once you get the feel for your equipment you should do well. Remember the wet sanding and buffing to really finish well
Daniel, my best advice to you is get a gravity feed jamb gun. They can be had fairly cheap and are adequate for guitars. I will say though, you get what you pay for in spray guns. Buy the best you can afford, keep it super clean.Cheap guns find a way to break down at the most inconvenient times.
What about the systems like the Fuji? Are they "all that"?
And my advice is to get a siphon feed conventional gun. Spray guns are simple but fussy tools. You can't expect to get acceptable performance from a cheap gun. I have not used HVLP, but a finisher who I respect says they won't atomize lacquer as well as the conventional guns. My main gun is a Binks 2001 bought new on Ebay, where they are offered regularly. I like it.
I have a Titan 3 stage model and have been shooting waterbourne lacquers (KTM 9 and PSL). It is a lot harder for me to get a good coat than with a conventional gun and nitro. I changed to a smaller tip size and that helped. Also, I am reducing the finish material with water and alcohol. The process is getting dialed in, but its slow for me. I am not crazy about the gun, but its hard to tell what's the gun's shortcomings and what the waterbourne shortcomings are. At least it sands easily. In summary, I am not yet convinced I did the right thing getting hvlp. There just isn't that much paint being sprayed during a session. Oh, I am also not wild about a full sized gun for shooting guitars. I'd think I'd rather have a touch up gun. Let's see, you were asking about cheap systems. I think that you want to get a better one if you go with HVLP.
Sorry to disagree with most of the above, but I'm only describing personal experience and realise maybe I just struck it lucky. When I started I bought a cheap HVLP Turbine Hobby model (see 'Spraymate' http://www.bambi-air.co.uk/), which came complete with a plastic gun. Four years and many refinishes later, I shoot mostly nitro, (I do more repairs and refins than anything else) I still cannot see any reason to change. I have a compressor also which I use for airbrushing and air tools but so far haven't bought a spraygun so can't comment on HVLP with a standard compressor. I've done a fair amount of spraying in the past, cars, motorbikes, and so on, using compressed air and decent guns (Binks usually) but I've just loved the HVLP turbine. It puts out heated air from the effects of the turbine, which I think helps to avoid blushing problems with nitro, and there is a lot less 'bounce' so it's more economic. When it eventually dies, it will be replaced with the same model I guess.
Daniel,
I have a couple of guns that I use, 1 Craftsman standard siphon gun, a detail Gun, 1 Craftsman HVLP gun and for XMas I got a DeVilbiss gravity feed HVLP gun. For Nitro I have found that the Devilbiss works really really well, I do thin the mixture a bit (using McFaddens) even though the manufactuer does not reccomend it, but I like the way it flows on when thinner.
I just have a standard 20 gallon compressor tank and I don't have any problems using the HVLP's, the Devilbiss was reasonably priced and I have to say that I'm very happy with it. However the Craftsman which is more than half the price does a good job too, it's just more finicky to setup.
-Paul-
Daniel,
Lots of feedback on this one. I think with HVLP sprayers, there's one thing to consider that Ron stated. . .with "systems", the guns sprays warm to hot air which theoretically aids in the drying/non-blushing process.
I shoot small instruments, and I use a full size (but I do more than one at a time). I have shot a Sata mini, and don't care for the feel. Like John said, most spraying is experience, and what works well for you, may not hold true with others.
Bottom line (as always), you get what you pay for. Investment in a good gun will save a lot of sanding.
By the way, just the opposite of Howard, I've used a siphon, but prefer gravity.
>but a finisher who I respect says they won't atomize lacquer as well as the conventional guns
As a blanket statement, I'd say I disagree with that (although I am no expert). I use a HVLP jamb gun (gravity feed) run off a small compressor and get terrific atomization with nitro; the "off the gun" surface is terrific, with very little "bounce" like I've had from some conventional guns.
If you own a compressor, I can't see any reason to buy a full turbine system. I've used both, and they both get the material on the wood quite nicely. A nice gun costs half as much or less. Plus, as John said, we sand the hell out of our finishes anyway.
Everybody: Thanks alot, this is just the kind of input I was hoping for. This should provide many leads for me to look into, and it was as I hoped, that experience with a given gun would outweigh the actual gun. Oh and yeah, I'm ready for lots of sanding and polishing, the deep glosses that I've seen with nitro are incentive enough to get this right. Thanks again.
Ron, do you know of anywhere else to get that apollo spraymate gun? I checked out that site as well as another I found on google, but with the exchange rate and shipping to the US it wouldn't be too affordable. I'm checking out other guns as well, but that does sound pretty nice.
Daniel, I've had good luck with a Porter Cable gravity feed HVLP gun. And, the cost was under a hundred bucks. You will need a compressor though, it is not one of those complete systems.
"Oh, I am also not wild about a full sized gun for shooting guitars"
I see absolutely no reason using a full sized hvlp should be any problem whatsoever. I have a SGF98 Sharpe that that will spray and atomize anything I put in it.The adjustability from small to large fan makes it well suited for just about any finishing. They also spray with lower pressure and cfm so your compressor does not have to run as much. Obviously the compressor is going to need less work down the road.
The other thing that has not been mentioned is the reduction in overspray and use of material. I won't be worrying so much about the fumes as much and use less cartridges in my respirator. They are many times easier to clean and maintain. As any finisher worth his craft will tell you must maintain your gun to get the best performance. I used siphon feed guns for many years before getting my first gravity feed/hvlp.
The main problem with a siphon is that it uses the compressor air to lift up the fluids taking more air that you could use to operate the fan and atomization. I will not buy another, the advantages to hvlp are to great to ignore. As far the atomization problem Howard spoke about, I can only wonder if the same perceived problem is inherent in a pressure feed gun as well. The only real difference between an hvlp and a pressure feed is the hvlp uses gravity to move the fluids and the pressure feed uses air pressure inside the pot. Maybe some minor tip and needle clearances to account for the sealing pressure of the pressure feed as the forces would be greater in the pressure feed.
The Binks 2001 comes both ways pressure feed (pressure pot type) and siphon. It is a nice gun, I have used one many times as the gun was purchased for company use. Just my opinion but I can back it up with facts, no heresay. I just had to speak up here too many people have the wrong ideas about the hvlp type of gun, the way that I used to be before I saw the light
Thanks R P thats good to know. I will be looking into those guns that you mentioned.
You are very welcome Daniel, sorry if ranted, I just get a little cranky now that I am almost ready for AARP to start sending me membership offers
Ditto to David and the Porter Cable, full size.
I'll be the first to admit though, the Sata mini (at 3 times the price) will lay a MUCH better spray, with MUCH more material on the instrument, resulting in MUCH less waste. I'm glad a friend bought this one, and not me :)
Daniel, I bought my Apollo Spraymate here in the UK (and of course it's 220v) so don't know of any US sources, though I assumed Apollo was a US make? Having said that, I can't find any on US websites. Might be worth an email to the company (bambi) to find out if they are available in the US.
Ive always used the cheap harbor frieght jamb guns ,they have a large opening and when they do get gummed up or need parts I toss them out.but 2 years ago I realized I acquired a allergic reaction when spraying lacquer .I went out and bought a accuspray 23k 3 stage hvlp turbine ,a good used one.I added an xtra 3 foot lenght of flex hose and a pint cup and a much smaller tip aircap and nozzle,this so I could learn all over again how to spray a waterbased lacquer.All I can say is its been a long two years,I think Im getting the technique down.Ive been using enduro water base lacqures(which is a great product)I can get a near air brush small fan for sunbursts.But it is a relearning experience.dont give up ,keep healthy!!!