MIMF

so the usual suspects are rosewood and ebony and I've seen a LOT of other woods being used
Of course Maple is used a lot, but it has to be finished.
I recently made a couple bridges out of brazilian cherry (jatoba) and it seems to be holding up well so far. I made a fretboard out of the same brazilian cherry and it looks dirty and grimy after just a couple months of playing. The maple fretboard I made also looks dirty, but I haven't finished it. I just has a shellac seal coat.
I'm wondering about using domestic (USA) hardwoods for these parts. Will black walnut hold up? would it need to be finished? Or how 'bout Koa?
So what are things you need to consider when choosing woods for fretboards and bridges? and how do you know whether or not they need to have a finish put on them?

Most black walnut is pretty soft and will wear fairly quickly. I think Koa would be the same. Pecan might be a good substitute for the look of koa and is fairly tough (related to hickory).

I have used Persimmon and Osage Orange for both. Each has a unique look. Each seems to be tough enough for the job.

I agree that black walnut is too soft, like red cedar. I've had trouble with frets in both of those. As for domestic U.S. woods, I use Cherry, Mahogany, and Chinaberry as my main fretboard/bridge stock. Maple and Pecan both work as well, but I prefer darker colored woods in those applications.

Probably a difference too whether its for a steel string or nylon. I imagine nylon strung guitars could use softer fretboards than steel strings.

Mesquite is also a likely candidate, plenty hard for a fingerboard, but maybe a little heavy for a bridge. I've also used bloodwood for a fingerboard.

I've used persimmon pretty often on 'domestic wood' guitars. It's not as hard as the usual ebonies, but works well enough. I use 'soft shell almond' for a fingerboard on one guitar. A student retrieved it from a fire wood pile. It looks a lot like cherry, but brown rather than red, and it's as hard as a brick. It makes a good fingerboard. I wish somebody would carry it: those California fire wood piles are a long way from here! I used 'mountain mahogany' for a violin fingerboard once, and it worked well. Again, its hard, dense, brown, and difficult to get. For the 'Cherry Seven' guitar I made for the project at the Montreal show a couple of years ago I use hornbeam or hophornbeam (not sure which). It's a lot like persimmon in its properties. Apple and hard maple are good, too.

The biggest issue with all of the domestic wood fingerboards is not hardness, but color. I use a walnut hull 'tea' to stain things like persimmon and hornbeam, and it gets you to about the color of walnut. That's enough to at least mask the dirt for a while, but it's not as good as real black ebony. Tom Thiel, at Northwind Tonewood, has been deeveloping a process to dye persimmon fingerboards black all the way through. I'm working on one now, and it sure is black! The main issue at the moment is cost: they run about the same as a regular ebony fingerboard, so there's not much incentive to use the persimmon, except, of course, that it's a domestic wood. The dynamics there may change.

Texas ebony is pretty dark, and definitely hard enough. The problem with it is availability.

I've used Mexican Royal Ebony also know as Katakox (Is that the same as Texas ebony mentioned above?), its dark purple/brown with some subtle figure and I've used Cocobolo.

Thanks for all the responses. So, walnut is too soft but cherry is okay? interesting. I always assumed that cherry was just as soft (or softer) than walnut.
About finishing, so is the general rule just that if it's light in color and likely to show dirt and grease then you finish it, but if it's dark you can leave it?

I've used walnut in quite a few fretboards and have not experienced the softness mentioned by others. On fretboard is now 10+ years old and gets regular use by an aggressive player and it is fairing better than some rosewood fingerboards I've seen. I'll post a picture later this evening.

Here's that picture of the walnut fretboard. Curly maple Inlays give it plenty of contrast. Gave it a Tru Oil wash before radiusing, then a liberal application of orange oil after all inlay and finish sanding was completed. This shot is a just after the orange oil was applied. After a week the color is stil deep but the finish is matte.

Thanks for posting that, John. Very pretty fretboard. Good to know your walnut has held up.

A lot of Ovation guitars have walnut fingerboards. It's not a new idea.

Oh, Ovation does it? then count me out.
Well, I don't know.. maybe it's worth a try anyway.

All these woods can have quite a bit of variability in their characteristics.
For example, I've certainly worked with EIR that is softer than most walnut. However, because it is rosewood, most builders would not hesitate to use it for a fingerboard. And it would probabaly be fine for several years, so ... c'est la lutherie!

Walnut would certainly be much more dimensionally stable than say ebony, that's for sure. (You can see what I'm try to do can't you, Chuck ? <g>)
I have usually hit the fretboard surface with thin CA to make the inlay fills blend in with the fretboard more uniformly with ebony fretboards, perhaps that could also be done to toughen the surface of a walnut fretboard?

As Chuck mentioned, there is a lot of variability within a species. Some pieces of walnut are reasonably dense and hard, and depending on the player's technique might hold up fine. Fender used maple. Some still look good after 30 years and some fingerboard surfaces are deeply pitted. "Always and Never" statements are hard to apply to wood products, and when someone asks for advice we can only speak in generalities.
I use one piece walnut neck/fingerboards for stick dulcimers. Lightly strung and played I think they will hold up reasonably well on an inexpensive instrument. But for a guitar I would want a harder surface.

Ryan

Over the years I have settled on four favorites. ZIricote , Bocote, figured Katalok and Brazilian rosewood, in that order. I have a good stock of ebony but I rarely use it anymore. It's just not as interesting and it's getting soooo hard to find quartered good quality ebony.

Joel

I'd make sure to use taller frets with walnut. I've noticed it to be quite a bit softer then many other woods.