Sentimental violin repair.

If you have a string instrument of any kind that needs fixing, a mistake you made in building a new instrument that you need to "disappear," or a question about the ethics of altering an older instrument, ask here. Please note that it will be much easier for us to help you decide on the best repair method if you post some pictures of the problem.
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Neil Brodie
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2020 4:53 am

Sentimental violin repair.

Post by Neil Brodie »

Hello. This is my first post and I hope I can hey some ongoing advice here.

My grandfather was a luthier based in Leeds UK. I have managed to get my hands on a early violin of his Which I would like to restore / repair and get back to playable state so my daughter can use it.

The neck is loose and the finish is ‘patchy‘ to say the least. Rumour has it he used this to practice varnish upon. This has HUGE sentimental value to me and I would dearly like to do the work myself (and correctly).

Where do I start?
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Chris Reed
Posts: 168
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:26 pm

Re: Sentimental violin repair.

Post by Chris Reed »

I make simpler instruments than violins, so read this post accordingly.

I'd suggest that if you do not already have quite a bit of experience making musical instruments, you will struggle with this even if you have fine woodworking experience. The risk is that your restoration will not play properly, will look terrible, and that your repairs will have made the instrument worse so that a professional can't fix them. You'll also need to spend quite a bit on some tools for use once only (for example, a peg reamer and shaper will together cost well over £200).

I understand the sentimental reasons for wanting to do this yourself, so if that's seriously important then I think you have two options.

1. Find a sympathetic local luthier who will, for an appropriate fee, teach you how to repair it and supervise using his or her workshop. This will be more expensive than paying the luthier to do the repairs, but should be enjoyable. Finding such a luthier might not be easy, no-one is keen on letting someone else loose in their workshop.

2. Teach yourself by buying several old and very battered violins and then repairing them. This will mean your restoration might take some years to complete, and it will cost in terms of specialist tools, glue, varnish, etc. But you'll learn a lot.

From what I can see, the repairs are fairly minor. You need to re-glue that neck joint - I'd be comfortable doing that because it has similarities with neck joints on instruments I've made. You need a new fingerboard - again, I'd be comfortable glueing one on, but shaping it properly for playability requires years of experience with violin making/repair, it's a subtle job, I doubt I've get it right. The same for a new nut. You have to make the missing section of top and purfling at the tail - not that hard, but needs a practised hand to get it looking right and near invisible. You but the bridge, but have to shape and fit it, again requires experience. Next you need to shape and fit pegs - honestly, it would be easier and cheaper to pay a luthier for this. Then the missing tailpiece and chin rest, which you just buy and fit. And finally, the hard part, refinishing. After around 60 instruments I might make an adequate job of that, in that it would look OK from a distance but not so great close up. Your first attempt would probably look very bad indeed. Finishing is more of an art than a skill, and requires lots of practice.

This assumes there is nothing I can't see from your photos, which is a big assumption!

I'm not trying to put you off, but you need to understand what is involved before you decide how to go about it.

However, if you don't care about restoring it to working order, just making it look good as it hangs on a wall, then that's less challenging though still not trivial.

Good luck, and most importantly, don't rush this!
Clay Schaeffer
Posts: 1674
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:04 pm

Re: Sentimental violin repair.

Post by Clay Schaeffer »

A couple things I would suggest is to become familiar with hot hide glue and always remember to fit the part to the fiddle and not fit the fiddle to the part. If you don't carve away any of the original and use hot hide glue then anything you screw up can be undone.
Understanding the relationships of the parts to one another is key to doing a good job. Most of the small bits the fiddle is missing can be purchased as ready to be installed or as "blanks" that will require careful fitting and shaping.
Rather than refinishing you might consider just a light french polishing to brighten the old finish up a bit as some do for old violins.
Examine as many violins as you can and read as much as you can about their construction.
As Chris mentioned fitting pegs requires some specialist tools, and although homemade reamers and peg shavers can be made, in unpracticed hands they can make a mess of things. I would recommend having pegs professionally fitted - slipping pegs are very frustrating to deal with for any level of player.
Again, use hot hide glue - there may be some "repairs" you will want to revisit as you become more familiar with the work.
Neil Brodie
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2020 4:53 am

Re: Sentimental violin repair.

Post by Neil Brodie »

Thank you both for your input. I see your point about the peg holes and peg fitting. Getting these done professionally is an idea I’m happy with.

Fixing the neck doesn’t seem too daunting to me. I might try to simply work some hot hide glue into the crack and then clamp it closed. I like the thought that hide glue can always be removed later if it doesn’t go totally to plan. (Does this sound like a viable method?)

From my research a French polish sounds like something I could do without too much risk of damage to the original varnish /look.

I believe my parents have some of my grandads notes on how he made instruments later on in his making career. I’ll get those and have a good read. Any other reading list suggestions are very welcome.

Thanks again.

Neil
Chris Reed
Posts: 168
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:26 pm

Re: Sentimental violin repair.

Post by Chris Reed »

Rather than working glue into the crack, I suggest you remove the neck. Gentle heat (hair dryer) plus a tiny amount of water dribbled into the joint - 1/4 teaspoon max - should make it come free. The wood needs to be warm right into the joint, so it might take 10 mins to warm it through. Keep feeling around the joint and stop if it becomes Ouch! hot to the touch.

Once free, clean out the old glue with a cotton bud regularly dampened, not wetted, with warm water.

Then a reglue with hot hide glue should work.

When glueing, you need to get the neck angle right. Read up on this, and make allowance for the missing fretboard.
Neil Brodie
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2020 4:53 am

Re: Sentimental violin repair.

Post by Neil Brodie »

The saddle looks to be still firmly stuck to the button. Would I be best to try and loosen this with an opening knife or similar? (I saw a video on YouTube where they did this) Or would you expect the method of water and heat (As you described above) to release this?

I’ve just started reading up on neck angles. Boy that does look complicated!

Neil
Chris Reed
Posts: 168
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:26 pm

Re: Sentimental violin repair.

Post by Chris Reed »

I forgot about the button - told you I don't have experience with violins!

It looks to me as if the neck joint is loose, and only held on by the button. Is that right?

If so, I'd start by dribbling a tiny amount of water into the neck joint from the top (wipe it off the top immediately) and then gently heating the button. You want the button to be fairly hot to the touch, but well short of Ow! hot. Carelessly applied heat will damage the finish on the back.

Once it's been kept at that heat for around 10 mins, dribble a little more water in the joint and then start gently wiggling the neck. If it starts to come away from the button (probably nearest the body first) keep wiggling. Don't lever - you don't want to snap the button off! Just let the glue soften in its own time, and then gently peel the joint apart.

If that doesn't work a knife is the next step. Gently work it into the joint and wiggle it along (no levering, remember). Go slow, and watch for digging into the wood. I find a hot knife (hand hot) can make this easier as it can melt the glue. Stop if it's going wrong, reassess, maybe start the knife at a different point.

Once the neck is off I'd replace the fingerboard. This is easiest with the neck off, and it also gives you a reference surface to set the neck angle when you reattach the neck.
Neil Brodie
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2020 4:53 am

Re: Sentimental violin repair.

Post by Neil Brodie »

Great, thanks Chris. Your input is very well received.
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