Gibson Banjo Mandolin, Help identify and select replacement fingerboard

[Mark Wybierala]

I have a Gibson Banjo Mandolin. Its in fair condition and the only thing preventing it from being played is that the fingerboard ramps upward significantly at the end overhang. The first three frets are also badly worn. I want to replace the fingerboard and this is within my skills. I'm guessing that the fingerboard is ebony ((faded from age) as it is very wavy closed grain grey-dark brown. I'd like to know the year and model before I start. The instrument belongs to a friend. I've taken pictures of what I figured were the relevant views for identification. It has a batch number of 11529-3 stamped into the hoop. There are no decorations and I'm assuming it should have a nickel plated tailpiece cover with "The Gibson" stamped into it -- something I need to find. I have the actual original tailpiece but not the cover. Nothing written on the headstock or anywhere except for the oval Gibson label inside the hoop.

[Stephen Neal Saqui]

I'd be against you changing the fingerboard.

It sounds like the neck angle is too far forward, so ignoring the upper fingerboard, you should be able to change the angle of the neck back to being playable. And while you're doing this, you should be able to heat-bend the upper fingerboard so that it is straight and lined up with the neck. To heat bend, take the neck off the body, make it secure, put a heat lamp at the bend...wipe with damp cloth and apply pressure. Don't over-do it and protect the rest of the fingerboard with white cardboard. Go gently and you should be able to bend it without breaking.

A refret is all you need to get it back playing.

But changing the fingerboard means making a new fingerboard...it also means likely damage to the neck, and ruins the originality.

If any of the above isn't clear let me know. I think the instrument is from the teens or '20's and is worth keeping original. Do a search for Gibson dating using the label. There's a lot of collector info available. Also look for a number stamped on the post.

[Michael Lewis]

Compression fretting the overhang can straighten that section. StewMac sells a fret tang crimper that works nicely for such applications.

The number stamped inside the rim should match the number stamped on the top side of the dowel stick. "Spann's Guide to Gibson" is recognized by the industry as the current authority on identifying early Gibson instruments through 1941.

Standard bridges are 1/2" or 5/8" high, so that is the range you need to shoot for when checking the neck angle. It the neck angle currently falls within that range then you are nearly "home", but if the neck needs to be re angled you likely have some tedious work ahead.

Good ebony is getting much more difficult to find these days, so conserve what you have.

[Stephen Neal Saqui]

Compression fretting could be risky as well if the wood has softened or if too much tang has been applied. The "tang crimper" requires much practice before you get the right amount of spread in the tang. The ideal is to get the fingerboard straight keeping the original frets They may be bar frets which are made from flat stock. Look at the side of the neck and determine this. If they're bar frets they have no head or crown. If they're modern frets they'll likely have a very small head, and are called mandolin frets. Regardless, this work must be done with the neck off the body.

Another way to correct the bend in the upper fingerboard is to clamp the neck on the bench with fingerboard down flat on the bench. Apply heat and a little moisture to the back of the fingerboard at the bend. Also place a low angled wedge at the end of the fingerboard with a very small amount of wedging. Protect the heel and the fingerboard with white cardboard. Only expose the bent area to the heat. Again, don't over-do it. Just get that area hot and moist, then take off the heat and let it sit overnight. The idea is not to do anything extreme. Check the bend the next day and repeat the process if there's still some bend.

[Mark Wybierala]

I'll try the heat method of taming that ramp. Its a very straight forward bend at the end of the fretboard that includes only the extension. I think I can be successful. I often don't think about heat as a first strategy but that is why we have a forum. I need to study the frets and see what I need to do. Thanks much.

I'm getting some info that this is an MB-Jr around 1922 but there is a lot of conflicting information that just doesn't neatly fall together. The MB-Jr is advertised as having a 9" head and mine is 10.5. Pictures of 1922 MBs have two metal coordinating rods rather than the stick and the single rod. All of the pictures I see of Jrs have a gold oval lable with the word "Junior" on it. I've seen a picture of an auction for a 1924 MB-Jr that fits what I have but the batch # is 114XX. My batch# 11529 -- are batch numbers always consecutive -- I would have though so even though there are gaps. I'm now considering the MB to be 1925.

I need some .034 fretwire. I have some .053. Has anyone seen a clever device for slimming fretwire?

[Paul Breen]

A miss-behaving finger board extension on a vintage instrument is often caused from the fret slots being cut too deep. No compression fretting or heating will correct that! Such was the case with this Lyon and Healy Tango banjo fingerboard.

The fix was to remove the finger board, rout the back and inlay Ebony strips, I used epoxy to glue them.

I have also done this with Carbon Fiber Rod.

[Mark Wybierala]

The nice thing is that there is an underside that isn't seen. The thing that is going to make all of the difference is the health of the old wood. I've seen a lot of these older instruments with absolutely no integrity remaining from dry rot or other ailments. The extension feels okay so maybe there is hope. I've done a sort or compression fretting by filling the slot with epoxy and then cutting a thin slot and reusing the original fret but in this case, the ramp is not really a curve but rather an angle originating at the extension. It must be fixed or the instrument will never play well. There is too little fretboard meat to sand out the angle so I'll try a combination of compressing the 12th fret and heat.

45 minutes using a diamond block and I have a ten inch length of .034 fretwire which is all I need for the first 7 or eight frets. I haven't pulled any frets yet to evaluate the tang but I'll do what I need to do to make the stewmac fretwire look appropriate. At least it isn't bar stock.

[Stephen Neal Saqui]

Pulling the first fret and replacing it with your fret wire would be a good test on the condition of the wood and the feel of the fret going in.

The bend at the 12th has been like that for a long time so it has memory...but the method you've chosen with heat and a little moisture should change that memory. This is where patience comes in. It may take a few sessions plus being clamped and wedged.

It might be a good idea to try the compression fret at the first fret to see how it feels. Then when it's time to put in the compression fret at the 12th, if you need it, you'll have an idea of how it will go in. And when you do put the fret in at the 12th make sure it's backed up on a solid heavy block. I have a 25 lb. lead brick for backup and I never have to hammer hard or use force in that situation.

[Mark Wybierala]

I ended up removing the fretboard and I got it off cleanly and totally intact using a heatgun and a thin knife. Its quite interesting. There is a 4.5" long strip of steel with half of it between the neck and the fretboard and the other half under the extension and its totally clear what has happened to make the fretboard elevate at the extension. The "stick" that goes into the rim is secured into the neck with a 1/4" dowel that goes from the top surface of the neck to under the heel cap. The wood of the neck has slightly shrunk across the grain but the dowel has grain that runs at 90 degrees to the neck wood so it did not shrink along its length. With the fretboard off, you can see that the dowel significantly protrudes from the original surface of the neck wood and came into contact with the steel strip that is designed to give the extension a little extra strength. Additionally, the hollow for the steel strip (1/16 X 1/2 X 4-1/2) under the fretboard, has shrunk and popped out the strip from where it should reside adding to the elevation. With fretboard removed and the hollow enlarged slightly, I re-bent the steel strip to be flat and epoxied it back into the hollow. The fretboard is nearly totally flat again. I've trimmed the end of the dowel and leveled the neck. On Monday, I should be able to reglue the fretboard to the neck. Before I removed the fretboard, I drilled two locator holes so the alignment is easy. I'll try to do a few photos

[Stephen Neal Saqui]

Very good, Mark! It shows me how perception can be so different on a forum from what is actually real!

Please photograph what you have discovered! Thanks!

[Mark Wybierala]

Picture... The fretboard is laying upside down but referenced to its position on the neck