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question about rubber hose

PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:37 am
by Ryan Mazzocco
I've decided to start using rubber hose to clamp down the binding like I've seen so many of you do. Keeping the binding tight has always been a problem for me and I feel this will yield a better result. I've looked up rubber hose such as this and found several different types for different purposes made by different manufactures for different prices. What exactly am I looking for here? And how much do I need for one guitar? Thanks

Re: question about rubber hose

PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:02 pm
by Barry Daniels
Rubber hose? Never seen anyone use that.

Re: question about rubber hose

PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:05 pm
by Bob Orr
I think you mean silicon surgical hose, I have seen that used. Here is a link to evilbay. Bob

https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/140860748248?c ... 089&crdt=0

Re: question about rubber hose

PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:52 pm
by Ryan Mazzocco
Barry Daniels wrote:Rubber hose? Never seen anyone use that.

of course i meant "rubber" in the most generic sense. be it silicon, latex or whatever, but that's basically what I'm trying to find out.

Re: question about rubber hose

PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:23 pm
by Barry Daniels
I have seen surgical hose used, but it seems like it might be difficult to handle. Kind of stiff and hard to tie into knots. For many years I used a long length of 1/4" fabric wrapped bungie cord. It worked good but it is a work out to apply. I feel like I've wrestled an alligator after using it. Now, I try to bend the binding so it fits better and then use adhesive tapes (both heavy duty masking tape and fiber reinforced packing tape).

Re: question about rubber hose

PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:33 pm
by Bryan Bear
When I was planning to go the rubber wrap method, I went to the bicycle shop and got a bunch of used inner-tubes and planned to get more later. I ended up switching to the reinforced strapping tape so I never ended up using the rubber. My plan was to cut them open and make strips (removing the valve stems). I don't know if it was a good plan but something to think about. . .

Re: question about rubber hose

PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:47 pm
by Alan Carruth
I've always used a strip of rubber cut from a truck inner tube. They do still make them, and you can usually get one that's beyond patching free. The trick is to get it cut up into a long strip that you can use.

You need to at least try to make a continuous strip of uniform width with smooth edges: notches make stress risers that cause the strip to break when you're wrapping the guitar. So far the best tool I've found for that is the rotary cutter that a lot of quilters and seamstresses use. It's like a pizza cutter, but 'way sharper. Regular scissors make too many notches. Also, cutting such a long strip of heavy rubber with scissors gets hard on the wrist.

I use a two step process to get a uniform strip. First, make a crescent shaped plywood insert that will go into the tube and hold a section of it flat. You need to cut against a backing with the wheel, and this provides it, as well as making it easier to get nice straight cuts. You don't have to stretch the tube tight, but make the cutout large enough to keep it pretty flat. I like to make it fill about 1/4 of the diameter of the tube. Mark off the inner diameter of the tube at, say, 1" intervals, and mark off the outer diameter with the same number of intervals at whatever width. Chalk works well. Now make a radial cut from one inside mark to one on the outside. Flip the thing over, and go from the end of the outside cut to the next inside mark over from where you began. You're cutting out a spiral that goes in and out along the radius. Note that this is easier if you only use, say, a quarter of the tube to begin with.

What you'll end up with is a long strip that gets narrower and wider. Use the cutter to trim it down carefully to a uniform width. Yes, you're throwing away a lot of rubber, but you didn't pay much (if anything) for it.

I just measured the length of one I use, and it's close to 90'. Hard to believe. That's long enough to go around a 17" deep body Jumbo, if you pull it tight. If the strips you make are shorter you can tie them together with a square knot.

Be aware that the rope overlaps in the center of the lower bout on the front and back, and can put a significant downward pressure on the top. So fat the only one I've had fail from that was a sandwich top, and that was due to the epoxy: they changed the formulation on me, and it didn't harden properly. Heckuva time to find out, but better that then after the strings were on, I guess.

Re: question about rubber hose

PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:29 pm
by Peter Wilcox
I use inner tube to glue on backs, but not binding - seems like it might be pretty cumbersome.

back-glued-on.jpg


I use masking tape for bindings.

taped-binding.jpg

Re: question about rubber hose

PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:07 pm
by Ryan Mazzocco
well now i'm feeling kind of stupid. For some reason I really thought this was a thing everyone was doing, wrapping surgical tubing around the guitars to pull in the binding really tight. I'm seeing other similar ideas like rubber straps, bands and inner tube strips, but not as much of the tubing like I thought. I couldn't have dreamed it, I'm sure I've seen it, but for some reason got the idea that this was how everyone was doing it. I think I'll probably just try the rubber clamping bands from stewmac.

Re: question about rubber hose

PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:44 pm
by Barry Daniels
I think it is worth revisiting your binding fit prior to glue up. Having binding thin (about .060") and doing some touch-up bending on a hot pipe after the initial bend will go a long way towards making it fit better with less clamping pressure.

Re: question about rubber hose

PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:42 pm
by Bryan Bear
On the last two bodies I did, I was not super particular about bending my bindings but the tape did just fine. I rough bent the waist and way over bent the upper bouts and didn’t pre-bend the lower bouts at all. Bindings were around 0.08-0.085 inches. I started at the tail miters and bent the lower bout as I taped and glued. The tape method (with a good tape) works really well. The only real difficult parts where where the waist bend happens at the same time the back taper starts on the back. Pulled my all tight there is a bit challenging. Perhaps wrapping with rubber or rope there would help.

Re: question about rubber hose

PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:33 am
by Mark Swanson
I find getting a good fit and using tape works best for me. I tried wrapping once and the combined wraps built up so much pressure that it actually warped the body!

Re: question about rubber hose

PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:58 pm
by David King
In the industry I'm sure there are companies that use inflatable tubing on the inside a caul to clamp the binding from the top and from the side simultaneously. You'd need a very rigid caul and a nonstick tubing that can handle the pressure.
You'd also want judicious pressure regulation as the psi start to add up over a large area.

Re: question about rubber hose

PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:17 pm
by Bryan Bear
Mark Swanson wrote:I find getting a good fit and using tape works best for me. I tried wrapping once and the combined wraps built up so much pressure that it actually warped the body!


That's a good caution Mark! That is something I wouldn't have really thought about but I can see how lots of wraps of something stretchy could add up to trouble.

Ryan, how are you doing your bindings now and why the desire to change? Are you having an issue? IIRC you are using tape, maybe you just need to tweak the process a bit.

Re: question about rubber hose

PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:49 pm
by Ryan Mazzocco
Bryan Bear wrote:Ryan, how are you doing your bindings now and why the desire to change? Are you having an issue? IIRC you are using tape, maybe you just need to tweak the process a bit.

Yes I am currently doing tape. I'm not planning to quit, I just want to add a wrap to the process to get it in tighter than I can with just the tape. I'm always tweaking the process and just trying to figure out what I like best. I don't know that I've done it the same way twice. I'm very excited to see how they turn out this time around anyway. I just bought Chris Ensor's binding channel jig. I cut the channels on a some uke bodies with it and I have to say these are the best channels I have ever cut. I did a dry run around it with a piece of binding and it's nearly perfect all the way around.

Re: question about rubber hose

PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:52 pm
by Simon Magennis
I use masking tape. The traditional Spanish way is string. Should be loads of videos on you tube, but I haven't looked.

Re: question about rubber hose

PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:56 am
by Bob Shanklin
Ryan, if you want to use rubber banding, use the stuff the physiotherapists make exercise bands from. https://www.amazon.com/TheraBand-Professional-Resistance-Exercise-Physical/dp/B0042PS9ES/ref=sr_1_20_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1509598205&sr=8-20-spons&keywords=theraband&th=1 Stuff works great, and glue doesn't stick to it. I still prefer tape though.

Bob

Re: question about rubber hose

PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:15 am
by Randolph Rhett
I think what you mean is this (not elastic):

https://youtu.be/2yKBr4a7qK0