Please help with classical setup

[Ron Daves]

I've declared my #2 guitar as finished. I need to know how to set up the nylon strings. I think the action is a bit too high right now, e.g., the distance from the bottom of the bass string to the fretboard at the 12th fret is about 11/64 ths. Treble E measurement is 8/64 ths.

While I'm at it, this guitar has a bit of a buzz on the D string at the 6th fret. This fret is a bit high under this string. Should I remove the strings and whack on the fret with my fret hammer or should I file it? Or something else"

[Waddy Thomson]

That's not horribly high. Depending on player preferences and the amount of relief you built into the fingerboard, you are about .5 mm too high, which is about 1/64 or so. However, to move it down a half mm, you need to reduce the saddle height by 1 mm or a little over 1/32 of an inch. That would give you, what I would call, standard action at the 12th fret on the bass E. Standard action on the treble e should be about 3 mm or just under 1/8". Make sure your settings at the nut are right. When you fret at the third fret, the string should just clear the first fret, on its way up to the nut. Slightly more gap can be left on the bass strings, but it doesn't have to be much. I usually file a little, then test by fretting at 3 then pushing down on the string at 1. When it just barely moves before stopping, I'm happy. Not saying this is right, but it's what I do. After the nut is right, or close - you might stay a little high initially, till you get the saddle height right, then you can fine tune the nut. The best way to see how low you can set it up is to make yourself another saddle, and keep lowering it until it's just too low. Then you can compare to your good saddle and adjust accordingly. Depending on neck angle, relief, etc, you can find the lowest action you can get without buzzing.

How high are the bottom of the strings at the bridge saddle from the top?

[Ron Daves]

I can get a 1/32nd " thick pocket ruler under the string at the first fret when I press on the 3rd fret.
Touching the edge of the ruler to the edge of the bridge, the Bass E measures about 31/64 and the treble E 29/64

Also, can you help with the D string buzz at 6th fret?

Thankx

[Michael Lewis]

Ron, do you have a small metal ruler? I'm guessing your pocket ruler is metal. That is what I prefer to tap frets with when testing for looseness. Loose frets produce a dull sound when you tap them with the end of the ruler, and a sharp click if they are well anchored. Frets must be well anchored before leveling them or you will never be happy with them. You did level the frets after installing them, didn't you?

[Waddy Thomson]

1/32 is a pretty high string at the first when fretted at 3. That's even high when not fretted. When fretted, you should be able to get a piece of paper under the fret, not much more.

[Ron Daves]

Waddy Thomson writes:
"1/32 is a pretty high string at the first when fretted at 3. That's even high when not fretted. When fretted, you should be able to get a piece of paper under the fret, not much more".

Thanks. Looks like lowering the action is in order. I set up the action according to a "how-to" book that I used for both guitars that I have built. The action on #1 was also a bit high

Micheal Lewis writes: "Ron, do you have a small metal ruler? I'm guessing your pocket ruler is metal. That is what I prefer to tap frets with when testing for looseness. Loose frets produce a dull sound when you tap them with the end of the ruler, and a sharp click if they are well anchored. Frets must be well anchored before leveling them or you will never be happy with them. You did level the frets after installing them, didn't you?"

The ruler tap-test you mention results in a sharp click on all frets. When I did the setup, I rough-leveled the frets with a flat file, then used an 18" sand paper covered level that I had flattened on a glass/80 grit sandpaper combination. For some reason that I cannot figure out, this sixth fret is a bit high. I can't see it with my eyeball, but fretting 5 and plucking the D string tells the story. I remember on my first guitar, I had somewhat the same problem and filed the offending fret down only to discover the buzz moved down a fret. Can't remember exactly how I solved it, but I do remember that filing the offending fret wasn't the answer.

[Waddy Thomson]

Often, classical builders will increase the action on the g and D strings slightly. These two strings are the floppiest strings on the guitar, and will often be the first to buzz. I know on my guitars, the low E is often easier to get lower than the D.

[Simon Magennis]

Ron..

Just checking that everyone is talking about the same thing. When you give the clearances, are you measuring from the string to the top of the fret or from the string to the wood on the fretboard? My reading of your post suggests you mean from string to wood whereas most (but not all) people usually discuss this in terms of distance between the string and the top of the fret.

[Waddy Thomson]

Good catch, Ron. I didn't even see that.

[Ron Daves]

Ron..

Just checking that everyone is talking about the same thing. When you give the clearances, are you measuring from the string to the top of the fret or from the string to the wood on the fretboard? My reading of your post suggests you mean from string to wood whereas most (but not all) people usually discuss this in terms of distance between the string and the top of the fret.

Just double checked my guitarmaking "how to" book and you are absolutely right. So, here are the clearances (corrected) at the 12th fret: Bass E: 9/64ths. All the rest:8/64ths.
According to the "How to" reference the clearances at fret twelve from fret crown to bottom of Bass E, A, D, G, B and treble E in 64ths are: 10, 9.5, 9, 9, 8,5, 8.

My fretboard isn't crowned. It is tapered gradually ending up 1/16th-inch lower at the 18th fret.

I like the idea of raising the D string a tad. I think I'll try some gentle tapping on fret #6 to see if that solves anything. If not, I'll re-level the frets. I might even try raising the D and G strings just a bit.
It's my guitar, I can do anything I want with it.

[Simon Magennis]

Ron,

Excellent. It looks like you are pretty close to "standard" action.

"Standard" action is, however, kind of like "one size fits" socks - they really should be called one size fits nobody. So essentially in this case it is now just a question of taste whether you prefer higher or lower. You will probably have read that for flamenco players like it really low and will accept a certain of buzzing as part of the price. As Waddy pointed out you may be a bit high at the nut but again nothing to panic about. Personally for the moment I would leave the action alone for a few weeks until you get the feel for the guitar (I am assuming it is for yourself to play).

I would chase up the buzz on the 6th fret. It looks like you have identified the offending spot (i.e fretting at the 5th the 6th buzzes on a high point?). I use a short metal rocker that covers 3 frets to test this sort of stuff. Once you have identified the high point you can loosen the strings a lot and slide in two blocks of wood under the strings to raise them an inch or so (enough to give working space) above the fretboard so that you can get at the high point with a file or sandpaper and bring it down to the right height while checking it with the rocker. Some people like to stick really cheap strings on initially in case they have to do this a number of times the get the fretboard the way they want it. Between the brutal handling and the likelihood of hitting them with a file you will probably want fresh strings on once you have the action right. OK, a pro will probably get the fretboard and the action right first time most of the time so he may not need to resort to the cheap string trick but for the rest of us it saves a few bucks each time. I keep my old strings for this purpose.

[Waddy Thomson]

That is much better! I agree with Simon. Play it a while, after you track down the buzz on D, and see if it's right for you. The action at the first, can be played with if it feels hard to fret in the first few frets. That's where that issue is usually felt, but depending on your playing style, it may not be a problem.

[Tom Sommerville]

Quick suggestion:

A taught string is a pretty good straight edge. Capo at the first, hold or clamp around the 12th, turn the guitar to playing position and study the frets for clearance, relief. Use a good lamp for this.