Newbie neck question

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Adam Savage
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Location: Sunny Alloa, Scotland

Newbie neck question

Post by Adam Savage »

Hello folks,
I am finally getting around to begin construction on my first acoustic guitar at my home workshop (i.e. cluttered garage), and am working through the steps in my head, mostly based on the Cumpiano book and a course I did a few years ago.
Mostly, I am happy to work the sequences through, but the major stumbling block is in getting the neck-body join correct. I plan for the bed-bolt/ glued fretboard approach, and am wondering what method would you advise for the actual cutting of the mortise and tenon? And a method that would then allow minor adjustments to be made in neck angle.

Many thanks for any help received,
Adam Savage
Steve Senseney
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Re: Newbie neck question

Post by Steve Senseney »

I use the two bolt attachment for my acoustic neck attachments.

Glue the heel block on the neck. Square this up on the sides, as you will need to have good cuts.

I use a chop saw set at 1 1/2 degrees to cut the end of the heel.

I use a table saw with the blade set at 90 degrees to cut the cheeks of the tenon.

I angle the blade about 5 degrees to the cut the rest of the tenon material away.

All of these cuts could be done carefully by hand tools, but I have a nice chop saw, and table saw, so I use them.
Adam Savage
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Re: Newbie neck question

Post by Adam Savage »

How do you go about fine tuning the neck angle with that method?

Adam S
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Peter Wilcox
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Re: Newbie neck question

Post by Peter Wilcox »

I assume this is similar to the method you are using: http://www.cumpiano.com/Home/Articles/S ... block.html

I am a neophyte at this, having only done it only once. I cut the mortise and tenon with a bandsaw. I adjusted the neck angle both laterally and vertically by judiciously filing or sanding appropriate places on the end grain faces of the heel, bolting the neck on and removing it as necessary to test the fit.
Maybe I can't fix it, but I can fix it so no one can fix it
Steve Senseney
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Re: Newbie neck question

Post by Steve Senseney »

Sorry I didn't get back to you specifically. You have to fine adjust with chisels and sand paper.

If you use a 25 foot arch for the soundboard, keep the end block and neck block square, usually 1 1/2 degrees is close to the correct angle.
Matthew Atkinson
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Re: Newbie neck question

Post by Matthew Atkinson »

I suggest reducing the tenon length to 1/4" and using a smaller block inside. It's really only there to prevent side to side and rotational movement. With bolts there seems to be no need to make a long tenon, I think. Also put the truss rod adjustment at the peg head end. Also brace the top "flat" above the soundhole. I will make life much easier. My 2 cents.
-Matt
Michael Lewis
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Re: Newbie neck question

Post by Michael Lewis »

Traditional methods have been developed for practical reasons, not that there can't be improvements in the process. Master the traditional methods and THEN make your attempts at improving things. You will usually revert to the traditional methods for good reason. Everyone is looking for shortcuts and easier ways of doing things, but the quality of the results are what you need to focus on so don't cheat yourself just to avoid a "difficult" task. It takes a lot of work to develop skills, but skills are what you need to make hand made instruments, and the shortest way to get to that state is to get on with it, make your mistakes, make them better.
Adam Savage
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Re: Newbie neck question

Post by Adam Savage »

Thank you all for your responses.
Peter/Steve - that is much the method I was expecting, with perhaps the use of a router and jig rather than sandpaper and chisels (chisels in my hands are notoriously ineffective at shaving the correct places!)
Matthew - Most interesting ideas - I shall certainly bear them in mind, particularly the shorter tenon...
Michael - I appreciate that traditional methods were developed for practical reasons. Often these reasons were because of unavailability of specific hardware/power sources/materials. I would love to have the time/skill to be able to hand cut a dovetailed neck joint, but with no-one directly guiding me through my mistakes, I feel that would be a use of my time that is in preciously short supply right now, with a full time job, one 20 month old baby and another due in June for what is, and only ever will be, a hobby. I have made an acoustic previously on a course using the bolt-on system with a router and templates, and to my ears it sounds damn fine :) Now I am doing things on my own, what I thought I may have remembered, well, I havent!
I am not so much looking for short cuts/cheats to do things, but a guide as to how to go about a particular task. Most of the rest of the guitar (with help from Mr Cumpiano and Mr Natelson, a few jigs from Stewmac and a little head scratching) I am happy with to the level I am aiming for. However, it seems to me that the neck joint is possibly the single most important part of the guitar, the keystone if you will - it needs to be correct to a degree not necessarily required of the remainder of the guitar (for instance, if the body is 1/4" deeper than the the plan, it will probably still sound OK, but if the neck is that much out in any angle.....). This is not meant to be a disrespectful response to traditional methods and taking the time to master skills, but hopefully an explanation of what I am aiming for.
I would appreciate your thoughts,

Thank you,
Adam
Dave Stewart
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Re: Newbie neck question

Post by Dave Stewart »

Adam, there are several ways to achieve the mortise & tenon joint, from Campianos hand tool/tablesaw approach to purpose-built jigs that have the advantage of adjustability for routing for the correct neck angle. Corrections can then be made as needed. Read through the recent discussion http://www.tngforum.mimf.com/phpbb/view ... ?f=5&t=370 and the a very good OLF tutorial re making the adjustments.
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/sear ... ive_topics
I think these will clarify things some.
Dave
Milton, ON
Michael Lewis
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Re: Newbie neck question

Post by Michael Lewis »

There are several approaches to making neck joints, some better than others and for different reasons. If you ever want to remove the neck and you are not going to use a dovetail I suggest you use a straight mortise and tenon and bolt it on with glue only on the fingerboard, or as Rick turner does, inlay some carbon fiber reinforcements into the underside of the fingerboard and let it be elevated over the top. I would not glue a bolt on joint. Some factories do but it is for expedient assembly, not for future repair consideration.
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