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New site and a beef

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New site and a beef

Postby Rod True » Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:42 pm

Nice to see the MIMF come up to speed on the forum software. Something to note though, On EVERY other guitar/instrument makers forums out there, I can go online and say "Hey, the MIMF has new software, check it out" and post a link to it. Sad that the non-promotion of other sites is still a hard and fast rule here at the MIMF in a craft that is so full of sharing..... it's been one of my big beefs with the MIMF since I first joined. Don't worry, I'm not here often and I'll stick with the rules posted. Just wanted to mention it.

Again, nice to see the upgrade. #
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Re: New site and a beef

Postby Chris Paulick » Sat Jan 07, 2012 7:29 pm

Is there going to be a way to link YouTube videos with this new software Charlie? That's one of the problems that made the old software sort of out of date. I remember years ago when I found out about youtube that I could see the potential for vids.
Either way nice to see MIMF isn't going away.
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Re: New site and a beef

Postby Steve Hamlin » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:58 am

Agree. Much better with modern forum software. But was disappointed to see the the archaic restrictive T&C still in place. It reduces MIMF's value, and I doubt I'm alone in treating MIMF as a last port of call because of it. I want input from professional buiders, but it seems unrealistic to expect many to create anonymised versions of their sites just to share points of interest they've already published.
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Re: New site and a beef

Postby Rod True » Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:27 pm

Jim McConkey wrote:Ian, you haven't been around in a while. We greatly relaxed the links policy a couple years ago now. Links are now permitted to almost everything except your own web site, or active auctions. See the Rules for full info.


Well, I have to disagree with you here Jim. I belive that I could link to two websites with excellent luthier's supplies to offer which would get cut immediatly. I'm still ticked that both John's got booted off the MIMF for sharing their wares here. I understand that they broke the rules as laid out, but I can't link to their sites either because they are banned here..... yet they are two of the most helpful members of the luthier industry over the past 5 years or so.... Limiting people by rules not to promote one self (what is contributing to a forum about anyway, we all promote ourselves to one degree or another....) is exclusivity. But I guess that's what Deb wanted, which is her perogative of course. Just means she limited her growth, which caused huge growth in other forums....
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Re: New site and a beef

Postby Jim McConkey » Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:51 pm

Years ago the MIMF allowed no links at all. Those rules were indeed greatly relaxed a year or two back. There is no disagreeing with that. There were certain vendors who were banned over the years, not for minor policy infractions, but for egregious violations, and Deb chose to ban them. It is her forum and her right to do so. Whether Charlie will maintain the same bans is remains to be seen. Everything is open for negotiation on the new board. One of my favorite vendors is currently banned, and I personally hope that time will heal some old wounds.

As for everyone here promoting themselves, you must be joking. The majority of members are here to share in a common interest, not to promote themselves. Many of us are amateurs who build instruments for ourselves and have no need of self-promotion. The whole point of limiting self-promotion is to keep the forum from degenerating into a giant billboard, like so many other forums have before it. We want to see solid instrument building information here, not boasting. If you don't like the rules, no one is forcing you to stay. The rules are what keeps this place one of the most civilized and informative forums on the web.
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Re: New site and a beef

Postby Rod True » Mon Jan 16, 2012 3:53 am

Jim McConkey wrote:Years ago the MIMF allowed no links at all. Those rules were indeed greatly relaxed a year or two back. There is no disagreeing with that. There were certain vendors who were banned over the years, not for minor policy infractions, but for egregious violations, and Deb chose to ban them. It is her forum and her right to do so. Whether Charlie will maintain the same bans is remains to be seen. Everything is open for negotiation on the new board. One of my favorite vendors is currently banned, and I personally hope that time will heal some old wounds.

As for everyone here promoting themselves, you must be joking. The majority of members are here to share in a common interest, not to promote themselves. Many of us are amateurs who build instruments for ourselves and have no need of self-promotion. The whole point of limiting self-promotion is to keep the forum from degenerating into a giant billboard, like so many other forums have before it. We want to see solid instrument building information here, not boasting. If you don't like the rules, no one is forcing you to stay. The rules are what keeps this place one of the most civilized and informative forums on the web.


The reason I say that to some degree we all self promote is because it feels good to help someone out. I have to admit, that I like knowing what I know and get some level of self gratification out of helping someone out with the knowledge that I have. That's the type of self promotion that I'm talking about, not...."Hey, I have your answer but you'll have to come to my website to get it...."

That's all I'm saying :)
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Re: New site and a beef

Postby Mark Day » Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:37 am

Steve Hamlin wrote:
But was disappointed to see the the archaic restrictive T&C still in place. It reduces MIMF's value, and I doubt I'm alone in treating MIMF as a last port of call because of it.


You're not alone, Steve. That's the primary reason I have more or less disappeared from the MIMF. In general I'm a person who actually likes rules and agree with keeping rudeness, politics, religion, and soliciting out, but I think the extensiveness of the rules here is a bit draconian. I'm a member of two Ning groups that cater to lutenists and pre-Torres guitars and they have the same be polite, don't solicit, don't be political or discuss religious stuff rules, but beyond that, you're pretty much free. You don't have to consult the rule book before posting, and I don't think I have ever seen the site moderator chime in to berate a member for a rules infraction. Members regularly post youtube and vimeo videos of themselves performing pieces on their instruments; in fact they have a separate video section just for that. Members regularly link to sites commercial or otherwise and no ones seems to mind. You can also have your own blog on "your" page, so if anyone is interested, they can go to your public profile and read your blog, view photos, videos, sound clips, scores etc., you have uploaded, without this stuff taking up space in the regular forum and eventually disappearing as it gets old. Something like this could save on archiving everything to the library.
There are also professional musicians on those sites and they can post upcoming performances and CD releases. No one seems at all bothered by this.
There are builders on those Ning sites too; professional and amateur, but it is mostly players.
I love this place because of its specificity to building stringed instruments, but I do wish I could marry some of the best bits of each type of site. At the very least being able to share material already published on another site shouldn't be restricted.
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Re: New site and a beef

Postby Charlie Schultz » Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:57 pm

We do plan to review the rules after we go live. Thanks for you inputs.
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Re: New site and a beef

Postby Jeff Gandy » Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:39 pm

Steve Hamlin wrote:Agree. Much better with modern forum software. But was disappointed to see the the archaic restrictive T&C still in place. It reduces MIMF's value, and I doubt I'm alone in treating MIMF as a last port of call because of it.


Agreed.
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Re: New site and a beef

Postby Alan Carruth » Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:55 pm

I can see both viewpoints. On the one hand, this is one of the most civil and on topic sites around, and I do appreciate the fact that it isn't wall-to-wall spam. OTOH, not everything on a 'commercial' web site is commercial: I spend a lot of time on these fora talking about my various 'science fair projects', and have some .pdf versions of articles on my site that give a lot more info than I can post in a short text message. It would be nice to be able to just refer people to those directly, rather than have to coyly hint that, if you can find my site, and feel like drilling down a bit, there's more info. The direct citation would be likely to result in less 'commercial' exposure for those who only want the info. Just a thought...

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Re: New site and a beef

Postby Steve Hamlin » Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:39 am

Funnily, I had Alan's work in mind when I posted.

With regards stickiness, just ensure links are set to open in a new window/tab. Suspect this is a forum option, as some which appear to use the same software do this, and some don't.
When reading a thread, I generally treat links as sidenotes - they seldom draw me completey away from a forum, but when they do, it just reinforces that forum's role as a good place to start (a favoured portal, if you will.)

To reduce administrative burden of filtering spam, one forum (woodworkuk - obvious country specific tld (and now do I sigh or LOL :D )) has extended basic spam filtering and thread moving rights to subscribers. Haven't seen this done before, but could be worth considering.
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Re: New site and a beef

Postby Cliff Kachinske » Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:09 am

Spamming a forum is bad, no doubt. Blatant advertisement on a site like this is bad. Competing with the paid advertisers would constitute spamming, I think.

Forum users should be able to report spam.

That said, I think guys like Alan and Mario should be allowed to put links to their sites in the sig. It's not like I can't find their sites with a quick trip to Google. So a link there would just save me some keystrokes and be a convenience. Also, I think people who use a tabbed browser are likely to open a link like that on a separate tab or even in a new window, so it's not as if links like these would draw people away.

Maybe it would not be in good taste for me to have a link to my site, though, as it has nothing to do with luthiery and is blatantly commercial.

But if I had a personal blog, a link to that would probably be acceptable, too.
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