Art vs Craft or - Person vs CNC...

[David King]

I guess I'd rather be an "arty craftsperson" than a craftless artiste...

[Barry Daniels]

They must teach this "art arrogance" in art school as many artists seem to carry that attitude. But I have never talked to any luthier (even pros) that puts themselves on that same pedestal, which is very refreshing. I am proud to be a craftsman.

[Jason Rodgers]

They must teach this "art arrogance" in art school as many artists seem to carry that attitude. But I have never talked to any luthier (even pros) that puts themselves on that same pedestal, which is very refreshing. I am proud to be a craftsman.

It's an interesting line that folks in Arts education choose to tread. In the music education world, where I've spent most of my life, there is a lot of time and energy spent building technique so that you can access performance on an artistic/aesthetic/emotional level. That never goes away, no matter what age/grade/level of study. You gotta woodshed, or it doesn't matter.

In the visual arts world (drawing, painting, sculpting, etc.), I'd say most teachers follow that pedagogy in the early grades; but at the upper levels of education, there seems to be a strong adherence to a belief in some sort of transcendence of manual skill to the perfect, artistic creation. And either you find that muse, or you don't.

Of course, counter-examples could be found in any genre, and one group is bound to point fingers at the other. I'm using my own experience and examples. Music classes in college - theory, history, composition, ensemble performance, conducting, etc. - contained a great deal of basic, conceptual and functional instruction. I took one intro painting class, and it was an interesting contrast. We were told to paint still life arrangements, and there was a huge assumption that we could observe and apply form, color, and shading appropriately. The prof didn't give much helpful feedback. I'd say, "Ok, I think I'm done." and she'd say, "No, no you're not." So I'd keep going, not really understanding where I was going, until she would concede that I had done enough. And there was a different treatment of art majors and everyone else. I didn't see this in my music classes. One, narrow, example doesn't apply to the world, though.

[Clay Schaeffer]

"; but at the upper levels of education, there seems to be a strong adherence to a belief in some sort of transcendence of manual skill to the perfect, artistic creation. And either you find that muse, or you don't "

That also allows prices of artwork to transcend common sense.

[David King]

Let's face it a lot of the visual arts world is commodified by who you know and how well you can sell yourself to the "right" clientele. There are thousands of great painters out there who couldn't sell a work profitably to save their lives. They are just happy to cover their materials if they are lucky. When I buy art it's usually to support friends and I usually figure out that they sold me the work for what it cost them to frame it.

[Randolph Rhett]

Let's face it a lot of the visual arts world is commodified by who you know and how well you can sell yourself to the "right" clientele. There are thousands of great painters out there who couldn't sell a work profitably to save their lives. They are just happy to cover their materials if they are lucky. When I buy art it's usually to support friends and I usually figure out that they sold me the work for what it cost them to frame it.

Uhh.. are you talking "visual arts" or guitars?

[Jason Rodgers]

Let's face it a lot of the visual arts world is commodified by who you know and how well you can sell yourself to the "right" clientele. There are thousands of great painters out there who couldn't sell a work profitably to save their lives. They are just happy to cover their materials if they are lucky. When I buy art it's usually to support friends and I usually figure out that they sold me the work for what it cost them to frame it.

Uhh.. are you talking "visual arts" or guitars?

Right, I suppose we've come full circle!

[Michael Lewis]

Strive for perfection, settle for excellence. And for many, the journey is the destination.

[Paul Rhoney]

We just recently talked about this on my podcast The Luthierist (free on iTunes).

[Andy Birko]

As I see it CNC has the potential to open up artistic capabilities that would be nearly impossible without it..... There are obviously things that can only be done by hand that no CNC could ever be trained to do

The original question is interesting but I think is only relevant in an academic/philosophical sort of way. There's a lot of guitar makers and buyers out there and they'll make and buy what they want, how they want to.

I think the most interesting thing that CNC brings to the table is the possibility of creating things that are practically impossible to make by hand (and by practically, I mean in the literal sense of the word. i.e. that while it may be theoretically possible to do such a thing by hand, the hours and precision necessary makes it unfeasible).

I originally got into CNC to create a key-change mechanism for the bandura (a Ukrainian instrument) that actually works. It's kind of along the same lines as the mechanism found on a pedal harp that allows what's basically a diatonic instrument to play in any key. For about a century, bandura makers have been trying to make a key change mechanisms to varying degrees of success. There's about two mechanisms designs that work, but they're only on one style of instrument that completely precludes playing a whole swath of bandura repertoire. That mechanism was designed for soviet style factory production and although it can be fined tuned to work, it is very clunky, heavy and out of the factory doesn't even work very well.

There's another type of mechanism that's completely hand made that is absolute garbage. Engage it and the strings that are re-tuned sound like crap, buzzing, out of tune etc. With the precision and repeatability of CNC, I think I'll be able to combine the two mechanisms to create something new that meets the goals of what bandura players are after in a way that would be completely impossible if I had to do it by hand. I've made some prototypes now and it looks like in the tiny world of bandura, this mechanism is going to be rather revolutionary. And I also guarantee you that not a single player of modern bandura will bat an eyelash to the idea that this mechanism was produced on a CNC because it opens a world of possibilities to them artistically as musicians.

So I think this is a great example of something that can be done with a CNC that is completely impractical to do by hand. Could it be done by hand? Maybe. Is it economically feasible to do it by hand? No way.

Back to guitars - The fact that this thread exists shows how good a time it is to be involved in the guitar world. In the bandura example I made, the method of creation is not an issue at all because the bandura world is so teeny tiny that players will take whatever they can get to express their art. The guitar world is so large that we have the luxury of choice!

If you're a buyer who wants an instrument made in a candle lit shop using only hand tools, you can find a luthier to make you one that way. If you want something that plays really well but you can't afford the aforementioned guitar, you'll find that as well. If you're a luthier who needs to up your production to 60 guitars a year to put your kid through school, there's technology out there to help you achieve that goal. There's room for everything!

I'm a huge Philip Glass fan. As those of you who know him may know, his music used to cause a lot of polarization in the music world back in the day and I just love this quote of his: "You know, there's a lot of music in the world, you don't have to listen to mine. There's Mozart, there's the Beatles, listen to something else! You don't have to listen to this. You have my blessings, go on, listen to something else, I don't care."

If you don't like CNC, don't use it!