So confused - Turbine or compressor.

[Steve Sawyer]

In asking for info on a compressor-driven gun in this thread, I got a strong recommendation to go with a turbine outfit, specifically the Fuji Mini 3. I'm going to go with one of them, but can't decide which way to go. I have gotten to the point that I try to make a good choice out of the gate, so the higher cost of the Fuji isn't a deal-breaker, but I keep seeing really good comments re the LPH80 all over the interweb. If I acknowledge the moisture issue and invest in a good dryer, the cost differential becomes less of a deciding factor.

Would appreciate any arguments in favor of either solution here. I'll gladly hold your coats while y'all discuss this!

[Brian Evans]

Turbine air source is a single use deal, all you can do with it is power the gun. Compressor gun uses the compressor you probably already have, and that compressor can be used for many other things (blowing up footballs, etc...). My feeling, not backed up by personal experience (I have a compressor HVLP gun that I use for automotive work) is that the turbine system is capable of better finish quality off the gun. Only around 10 psi, so low overspray, and the higher volume gets better atomization. But we don't use the finish off the gun. We go through many steps of sanding and polishing after the finish is laid down. Where I have seen turbine systems is in very high end custom cabinetry shops, where they spray a lot of finish and it has to be perfect off the gun. They spray more square feet in a day than most of us would do in a year.

[Barry Daniels]

I have always used compressor guns and never invested in a turbine system. But my research says that the finish off a turbine gun is not necessarily better than a good compressor spray gun.

Brian is correct that a compressor has a lot of other uses in a woodworking shop. I use mine for vacuum pumping, powering polishing motors, a high speed pneumatic router, blowing sawdust out of motors and bearings, nail guns, and of course, airing up tires.

[David King]

I suppose one could use a turbine air compressor with a supplied air hood but then you'd still need a compressor to spray with. High pressure air compressors with modest outputs are so cheap that I wouldn't hesitate to have both types. I'd point out that the current generation of mirka electric sanders are probably better than the best dynabrade air sanders (and way more energy efficient but at a steep price).
I'd suggest that the choice really comes down to matching your ambient air conditions; hot and humid vs cold and dry.

[Steve Sawyer]

David - ambient conditions are good as long as I'm doing WB. Basement shop with hydronic heating (very dry) and A/C in the summer. RH of 55-60% max in the summer on the worst days. If I try nitro or urethanes (not my intention) I'll be waiting for good conditions for spraying outdoors or in an open garage.

[Steve Sawyer]

Also, I have a good compressor, so the issue of having an additional piece of equipment with a turbine rig has crossed my mind. Useful little beasties, compressors. Mine gets used mostly for nailing (23ga pins are incredibly useful), veneering, and blowing dust out of tools.

[Gordon Bellerose]

My opinion for what it's worth, is that you can get a really good spray gun for a couple of hundred, or less.
If you already have a good compressor able to keep up to the gun you buy, my opinion is that you will get more value for your dollar by going that way.
And as has already been said, there are many uses for a good compressor.
I will admit that I have never tried a turbine set up.

I use a "heated" gun. It uses more air but warms the lacquer as it goes through the gun. Lays down a really nice coat.

[Bob Gramann]

I've been spraying Target Coatings EM6000 (water-based) for several years with an Asturo ECO/SX hvlp gun. A couple of years ago, I wondered it I could simplify by going to a turbine/gun combination (and, I could then put my compressor back in the garage). A friend of mine had an Apollo 4-stage turbine system so I borrowed it to try out. I got just as much overspray as I experienced with my gun and compressor. The extra heat from the turbine seemed to make my lacquer dry too fast to flow out. And, I just couldn't dial in the gun to get a good wet coat without orange peel. My friend claims good results with it, but he only sprays satin so I'm not sure that my issues would show. After working with it for a couple of days, I decided to stick with the compressor and gun that I was already using (and to keep $1000). I am still tempted by the Fuji 4-stage every now and then, but without playing with one first (and feeling rich at the time), I don't think I will ever make the change. I'm guessing that the Fuji will do a great job, but I don't expect it will do any better than what I'm already able to do. I got a small, portable compressor for the garage.

[Steve Sawyer]

Thanks for the thoughtful feedback folks. Something that I'm unclear on and that may affect my decision is the issue of aircaps/needle assemblies. My understanding is that different finishing products may require using different different nozzle components. Given the variety of finishes that we use in guitar building (everything from shellac to wb lacquers to pigmented paints to dyes), I'm assuming this will be the case for me as well. The Iwata gun I'm looking at is available equipped with needles ranging from .6 to 1.2 mm if I recall correctly. The Fuji Mini-Mite 3 comes with a 1.3mm air cap set.

Fuji air cap sets seem to be readily available for about $60, but I'm having trouble finding the equivalent for the Iwata (I sent their US office an email asking about this).

In any case, my question is whether I should invest in an additional air cap set to provide more flexibility? If so, then I need to make sure I can source same, and may push me toward the Fuji system if air cap sets for the Iwata are made of unobtainium...

PS - I just found a source for Iwata air caps & fluid needles (Coast Airbrush) and it looks like they're not sold as sets, but as individual components, so I'd have to order a cap, nozzle and needle separately, and pretty $pendy at about $230 for all three components. Not a deal-breaker, but I want to know this going in if the consensus is that I should have more than the "stock" air cap set.

[Bob Gramann]

I use a 1.4 mm tip for the Target EM6000 (which I specified when I ordered the gun). The gun came with two smaller tips as well. I've never used them. I needed a 1.9 mm tip for spraying colored lacquer. For that, I thinned the lacquer until it would work with the 1.4 mm tip. It worked well.

[Barry Daniels]

You don't need other needle/cap sets unless you plan on spraying really thick stuff like latex paint. Pick a set that works well for lacquer and you will be able to spray dyes, and most anything else used on guitars.

[Todd Stock]

A turbine system with a top-grade gun will run about the cost of a decent compressor and regulator/filter/dryer, is portable, and extends spraying by at least +10% RH and -10 degrees F. I have both a large compressor with HVLP conversion guns (Iwata and SATA), and Fuji turbine system with several generations of guns, and use the turbine for almost all finishes beside gold tops or metallics. Warm, dry, clean air from the turbine makes for less worry about water or oil contamination, and the latest generation of gravity pressure cup gun is on par with the best of the conversion guns.

As for cost? About $620 for a top-quality (Fuji MM-3 with T-75G gun hoses, etc.) versus about $500 for a big box store brand 60 gallon, 5 hp compressor, then add gun ($150-$500), hoses ($30), filter/regulator/dryer ($50-$300). Absolutely agree with the usefulness of air in shop, but unless you plan on running air tools, a $250 portable 30 gallon/175psi compressor will handle anything you'll do.

[Steve Sawyer]

extends spraying by at least +10% RH and -10 degrees F.

What kinds of finishes are you doing, Todd? WB? Nitro? Urethane?

[Todd Stock]

Nitro and 2-pak urethanes, as well as WB urethanes.