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Supplied air face mask?

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Re: Supplied air face mask?

Postby Nelson Palen » Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:43 pm

Sorry for being "after the fact" here, Arnt. I hated to be negative after you said you had ordered the Trend airshield, you may find that it works quite well for your needs. Having allergies is seriously not fun and anything you can do to prevent reactions is time and money well spent.
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Re: Supplied air face mask?

Postby Arnt Rian » Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:58 pm

Its OK Nelson, I wasn't really mad at you for telling me how you felt about it after I had ordered mine, I was just trying to be funny (I usually fail, even in Norwegian...). I'm interested in getting as much feedback from people who have used it as possible, so thanks for weighing in. And yes, you're right about allergies, too...
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Re: Supplied air face mask?

Postby Arnt Rian » Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:59 pm

OK, the Trend thingy came, and I've had a chance to test it some. First impressions: It is a bit top heavy, but not that bad. The sound of that fan is LOUD however, so I sure won't be wearing this thing for that long at a time. For now, I'm using it whenever I'm producing dust, and for as long as I can stand after. One of the things I enjoy about working alone in the shop is the long periods of quietness, with this thing on that aspect is out. It does seem to work OK when I am wearing it though, and the slight "breeze" from the fan does feel nice, as has been mentioned.

At least it looks sharp... :roll:

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Re: Supplied air face mask?

Postby Clay Schaeffer » Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:47 am

Hi Arnt,
Thanks for the update on the air mask. Too bad about the fan noise, but when I am creating large quantities of dust I am usually running some kind of noisy powertool, so it might not be too noticeable. Years ago, when I worked with cannons a lot , I would wear earplugs and earmuffs. This helped to cut down noise quite a bit.
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Re: Supplied air face mask?

Postby Mario Proulx » Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:21 am

I have a supplied-air hood, with a remote turbine, so it can pull clean air from far away. I use it mainly in the spray booth, but have also used it for long thickness sanding operations with cocobolo. I try to thickness as many sets of coco at a time as I can, and do it at the end of the day. I'm not allergic to it, yet, but with as much of it as i use, it's likely a matter of time, so I take precautions. Part of the precautions is wearing a Lee Valley "turner's smock", both in the spray booth, as well as when thicknessing cocobolo. This smock is a lightweight, yet long jacket with a flap over the zipper, comfortable and long cuffs that seal-off your arms from dust, and a long/tall velcro'd flap collar that also seals out more dust. I wear thin nitrile gloves, with the cuffs over them, also. With this getup, no part of me gets exposed to dust(or finishes) at all. When I'm done with the sanding session, I crank the 4 hour timer on my whole shop air cleaning system, and in the morning I enter a clean, dust-free shop!

It reads like overkill, but really it isn't -that- big a deal. A smock, a ten cent pair of gloves, and a very lightweight hood with a small hose clipped to a belt(so you don't feel the hose "tugging" at you all the time).

As for the rest of the time, lock your sandpaper away, and get used to using a scraper to make shavings instead of dust. Use a razor saw and chisel instead of a router for small tasks like tucking braces into the ribs, etc.... Use a small plane for truing the linings instead of the router you're using in the photo. I've been hosting a high school co-op student this winter, and he's made me realize how little sandpaper I actually use. At first he was always asking where to find some, but after showing him how to use, and sharpen, a cabinet scraper, single-edge razor blades, and of course, chisels and planes, he's become very good with them and doesn't miss the sandpaper at all. And we produce a much nicer surface finish, too.....

Hope this helps!
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Re: Supplied air face mask?

Postby Arnt Rian » Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:25 pm

Thanks for weighing in, Mario! One of the upgrades I plan to do in my shop is to build a serious sanding table / shop cleaner, similar to one you showed a few years (?) back. I have the fan, and I just need to get some of the other bits and pieces, and do the work. That, and better filtering system for my DC, better collection at the source(s), and yes, start doing more operations with edge tools rather than sanding (I'm actually notching for the braces in the picture, so I'm not producing much dust. I do level linings with a plane, but I get your point...). I sometimes thickness plates and sides with a plane, and skip the drum sander for this step altogether, but it sure is handy, for a whole lot of things! Some folks have advised me to try disposable Tyvek suits, and toss them after sanding sessions, to avoid contact with the dust. So far, my only reactions are from breathing the dust, but I guess that could change with more exposure.
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Re: Supplied air face mask?

Postby Mario Proulx » Thu Mar 29, 2012 6:55 pm

You are correct that it's just a matter of time before skin contact becomes an issue for you. Right now, the irritation has begun on the softer, more delicate tissues, but your skin is its own organ, too.

Here's the LV smock: http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.a ... 30&p=49899

I think you would quickly tire of getting into and out of a Tyvek suit every time you made a bit of dust, and would soon begin not using it most of the time. Plus, they're not inexpensive if you would toss-out 3 or 4 of them each day! The LV smock, on the other hand, is lightweight, very comfortable and reasonably cool, too, is as easy to put on and take off as any shirt or jacket, so you're more likely to develop the good habit of either wearing it all the time you're in the shop, or at least every time you will produce dust. And it machine washes with the rest of your clothes.... Much more practical than a Tyvek suit, methinks.

Every time you reach for a piece of sandpaper or the small router from now on, take a second and ask yourself if you could do the task with a scraper, chisel, small saw or plane. Soon, you'll wonder why you ever used sandpaper at all. I, literally, cannot remember the last time I bought and sandpaper under 600 grit, other than the rolls for the thickness sander and the belts for the long bed sander. But sanding by hand? Almost unheard-of here, now. And that's a good thing, both for my health, and for my instruments. Much, much nicer surface....
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Re: Supplied air face mask?

Postby Keith Ambridge » Sat Apr 07, 2012 2:09 pm

http://www.bradwest.com/acatalog/aircap3.jpg

I recently picked one of these up on ebay (used as a display model) they're a bit pricey but,

I recently did a job where I had to rusticly sand (with angle grinder and flap wheels) about 25sq m of Iroko.

It was perfectly comfortable, I could see and I could breathe, having that little motor so near, infact connected to your head is a little noisy though!
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Re: Supplied air face mask?

Postby Michael Lewis » Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:48 am

Arnt, you may have to begin using "other" materials beside wood. All wood dust is considered a known carcinogen, though many people never seem to be effected by it. I have been thinking of using "found materials" as in the Mad Max movies to make almost anything imaginable. Recycling materials from almost anywhere (land fills, scrap dealers, junk yards, old airplanes, etc.) to make good quality musical instruments. Now there is a challenge for the mind.

Are you sensitive to more local materials like spruce and maple?
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Re: Supplied air face mask?

Postby Mike Fleck » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:25 am

I have had the 3m PAPR for about 3 years now. I got pretty sick a while back, decided to make the purchase. I love it. It seems big and cumbersome but once using it I found it much more comfortable than a face respirator. One charcoal cartridge for paint that I keep in a Tupperware container and another for dust. Also I had a sheet metal shop modify a dust/air filter so that I could run the fine dust outside eliminating a need for filter replacement. Good luck!

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Re: Supplied air face mask?

Postby Arnt Rian » Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:31 am

Michael Lewis wrote:Arnt, you may have to begin using "other" materials beside wood. All wood dust is considered a known carcinogen, though many people never seem to be effected by it. I have been thinking of using "found materials" as in the Mad Max movies to make almost anything imaginable. Recycling materials from almost anywhere (land fills, scrap dealers, junk yards, old airplanes, etc.) to make good quality musical instruments. Now there is a challenge for the mind.
Michael, I've made a few tin can instruments etc, I'm sure if one wanted to really get into this kind of thing and get creative, one could come up with some pretty interesting contraptions. We have seen some of that in the "$100 challenges" right here at MIMF", I'd love to see what a "Mad Mike Lewis" instrument would look like ;) (nudge-nudge)... I fear they would be difficult to sell to most of my current clientele though, but that could change, I suppose.


Michael Lewis wrote:Are you sensitive to more local materials like spruce and maple?
I'm working on some spruce and maple mandolins at the moment, and the dust doesn't seem nearly as aggressive to my system as the more exotic timbers. I could live with only having those two materials to build with, but it may only be a matter of time before I become sensitized to those as well. I know all wood dust is potentially harmful, so I'm trying to be as careful as I can.
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Re: Supplied air face mask?

Postby Simon Magennis » Tue Jun 27, 2017 8:26 am

Bumping this thread rather than starting a new one.

I need to improve my air supply. I have been looking at things such as the Trend and the 3M systems. (i.e portable filter units).

Any thoughts about the best bang for buck in 2017?

I am in the Euro zone so at the moment buying from the UK is good due to the exchange rate and not customs/taxes complications (yet :-)) due to the EU. Earlier in the thread Arnt mentioned that the Trend unit was quite noisy. I assume the 3M is quieter as the fan must be on the belt unit? However, the 3M is x3 the price of the trend or similar devices.

What is needed for an external air system? Obviously, pipes and a mask but what is needed to draw in the air?

Thanks,

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Re: Supplied air face mask?

Postby Barry Daniels » Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:33 am

The official name of these respirators are PAPR (powered air purifying respirator). I use to buy these for workers in the hazardous waste cleanup industry. The needs there are similar to what guitar builders should have. A small, battery powered, electric fan moves the air. This keeps the air cool and requires less effort for the user. So they are much more comfortable than a normal respirator.

The main thing to look for is availability of various types of respirator cartridges that are compatible with the system. You need two types of filters. 1) Organic vapor cartridges for when you are spraying paint, stain, lacquer, alcohol, etc. Also these work for epoxy exposure. 2) You also need particulate filtration cartridges for sanding operations, which are often the P-100 type that are used in asbestos cleanups. These are sometimes called HEPA cartridges.

I have a North PAPR which is very good quality and highly respected in the industry, as is 3M. Trend is more of a woodworkers label and you do not see these in industry.
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Re: Supplied air face mask?

Postby Simon Magennis » Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:03 pm

Thanks Barry. Ever come across "Purelite Xstream"?

A UK supplier suggested it. Seems to be in the same kind of segment as Trend but also may have a niche in agriculture too.
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Re: Supplied air face mask?

Postby Barry Daniels » Tue Jun 27, 2017 4:48 pm

I have not heard of it here in the states. Remember to make sure both kind of cartridges are available for it.
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