Dave Ball's banjo made from submerged birch with unusual 5th-string setup [Pictures] - created 07-17-2006

Ball, Dave - 07/17/2006.12:27:25

I've done some banjos in submerged birch, and I can say that it is definitely a lot different to work than non-submerged wood, whatever the density. The first thing I noticed with the submerged birch was that when I took a sharp plane to it, it left a finish like glass it was so glossy. It was far glossier than any non-submerged wood I've ever seen. Oddly enough, the curls that came off the wood were crumbly--they still came off in curls, but would crumble if you touched them. This is probably due to the cellular air pockets that Travis mentioned.

The second thing I noticed was that when I took a sharp plane to it, it left a finish like glass--broken glass. I laid my hand open on a sharp right angle of the wood, and it was as clean a cut as a knife would cut. Yow!

When I first finished the submerged birch (french polish), I didn't think it was ever going to get a good build. The wood just seemed to suck shellac into it without ever getting any body to it. Then, all of a sudden it seemed to reach a point of saturation or something, and the finish that built on it was beautiful! Very strange wood to work.

One last oddity--the wood smelled like fresh birch when I cut it. Sweet smelling (I've heard that submerged maple can have a very foul odor, but the birch smelled great).

As for tone--Submerged wood banjo rims are louder and brighter than rims made from non-submerged wood. Better? That depends, but there is most definitely a difference.

Dave

Got a picture, Dave?

Deb--here are a few pics showing off the birch...

Here's another.

And one more...

That old birch is pretty wood, and when you tap it, it rings like a bell. Very strange stuff....

Thanks!

Hey - waitaminute! I want to see more pictures of the 5-string banjo with the 5th string in the middle of the peghead!

Okeedokee...The banjo was a short scale (tenor length) five string with a tunnel fifth peg. Very fun to play!

This first pic is the fifth string (from the center tuner) going into a teflon tunnel.

This one is the fifth string emerging from the tunnel at the fifth fret

Finally, here is a full frontal view. It's neat in that there is no "bump" at the fifth fret.

That is just too neat!

Aw shucks...

I'm actually getting ready to build a "twin" to that one for the same owner. This one is an 11" banjo, and he wants a 12" to match it. Same short scale, same woods, but bigger rim. Should be cool.

PLEASE shoot some pictures of making that tunnel and post them when you do! And also pictures of the finished instrument - I think a short-scale neck with a 12" pot will look terrific.

Deb, the guy I'm building it for is sending me the wood (like he did on that one) and has some special parts being made for it. It'll probably be awhile before all of this stuff reaches me, but I'll shoot pics whenever I do get it done.

I think I have pictures of making the tunnel on that one--I'll post one if I can find it.

Hey wow Dave, you are one heck of an engraver!

I remember your setup with the bifocal microscope and twisty vise.

That is one heck of a banjo - as banjo's go that is.

I also really like that, Dave! I want to see how you make the tunnel, too. I've always wanted to try that. And I can only wish that I could do engraving that good!

Found them. Here's a couple of pics

Here's a closer view. What's going on here is that I routed a slot in the neck, then drilled a hole through the peghead overlay (where the wire thing is in the picture--it's used for alignment), and drilled another hole in the fingerboard, which I don't have pictures of. I glued on the peghead overlay, then ran the teflon tubing through it (it was wire insulation I use in amplifier building). I ran the other end of the tubing through the hole in the fingerboard, then glued the fingerboard on. Finally, I trimmed the teflon tubing and it was done.

It all sounds pretty simple. I love the way it looks!

Thanks for the nice comments everybody--I built this one back in 2003 or so, but still have a few scraps of the sunken birch around the shop to look at. The fellow I built it for did a very good job of selecting the kind of wood I wanted for a neck, and the bookmatch of the endgrain worked out great.

It is a pretty simple process--mainly working everything out on paper first to make sure the fifth string doesn't bind in the tunnel. It looks very clean, and really plays great. The English guys did many of their banjos like this in the 1890s, as did a few American makers of that era. Scott Vestal and Tom Nechville both sell modern tunnel fifth string banjos (probably others out there too).

That looks great, Dave. I have always wondered if the string would wear a groove in the teflon tubing- does it?

Very cool!

Mark--When I drew out the full size drawing of the banjo, I tried to keep the string path as straight as possible, so the string barely touches the teflon. So far, no problems, but with a little bit of doing, that teflon tube can be pulled out and replaced with a new one. You'd have to feed the tubing into the fingerboard end (the only place that there is any bend in the channel at all, and it is minimal) and wait for it to emerge out of the peghead end. I tried this before I glued everything up to make sure it would work, and it really wasn't too bad.

I want to mention that the engraving is really nice and adds a lot to the appearance.

Thanks Steve--I love inlay and engraving. I'm always working to improve it, and it's one of those areas where it seems like I'm always able to pick up some new tricks here and there!

I don't know if I really got interested in fancy old banjos because of the inlay/engraving work or the other way around. It doesn't matter anyway, since I've been obsessed with both for quite awhile now....

Were you inspired by English banjos, with a hidden 5th string from the peghead? That teflon tunnel is a great idea. Hey, if you can run tunnels that easily, what about sympathetic strings, running across the pot, under the head? I always thought there should be such a thing as a banjo d'amore..

Nicholas--my inspiration really came more from the banjos made by Hobart Middlebrook (Rock Rapids Iowa) in the early 1890s. I have several of his banjos--tunnel fifth string (he had the American patent for that), scalloped flush fretboard (also had the patent for that one), along with lots of other oddities. They play great.

As for sympathetic strings--seems like I have to fight like heck to keep from getting sympathetic strings behind the bridge!

The inlay ingraving is spectacular, as is the rest of the build!

Dave, the banjo is very attractive. Nice work.

I appreciate the nice comments--from folks with your talents, it's especially humbling!

Dittos on the engraving. I also find the neck shape intriguing - it looks like instead of a bump at the 5th fret, you just have a gradual taper down to the width of the nut, right?

Also, it looks like you built the rim from sectors of wood rather than bending it. Is that to do with the submerged wood or is it your usual technique?

Jon--although I build most of my rims like that (block built) these days, the one on that particular banjo is not one that I built. That banjo was ordered by a fellow who is probably the best rim builder on the planet, but he doesn't build banjos--only rims. He builds block rims from submerged timber that are aboslutely great, and wanted an entirely submerged birch banjo. He picked wood for me to do the neck out of based on my specs, but matching it to the wood he used for the rim.

The neck shape was originally patented by Henning in the 1890s. On Henning's banjo though, instead of a tunnel fifth string, the fifth string tuner was built into the tailpiece. There are a few modern makers who shape their necks like this--it's extremely comfortable!

Back to the block built rims. They've been around for a long time too. I've seen one minstrel era (mid 19th century) banjo with a block built rim--still in good condition too. The "Dayton" brand banjos from the twenties were block built, and they have also held up well. Block built rims sound quite a bit different from a regular wrapped/multiply rim. There's a lot less glue involved and the joints are typically a lot better than on a laminated rim, and as a result, the block rims are considerably more resonant. If you tap a regular two or three ply rim, it produces pretty much a thud. Different woods don't sound much different. On a block rim, on the other hand, when you tap it, it rings. Plus, there's a big difference in the ring tone between different kinds of wood. The submerged birch is very bright in tone when tapped, while other woods like rosewood or padauk are much deeper sounding.

There are modern drum makers who do block built snare drums--several of them have noted the different tones and attack/decay characteristics that different woods have. I've found that the same woods behave pretty much the same way on banjos. Woods that produce a pronounced "crack" with a quick decay on a snare drum produce a banjo with a sharp attack and a quick decay. Deep sound on a drum--deep sound on a banjo. The two must have something in common, eh???

I still do wrapped rims too, since the louder, sharper block rim sound isn't for everybody. But it's a good way to build banjos.

Dave, banjos are not my cup of tea but I must say this one is really nice. It almost makes me wanna learn the banjo.

Could you please elaborate on the block built rim building process? It look like an interesting thing to see.

Thanks.

David.

David--block built banjo rims are built in the same way as segmented bowls. A multi-sided polygon is built from blocks of wood--usually six or eight sided--then these polygons are stacked on top of each other to form a rim blank. The glue lines are staggered so that the final lamination is very strong with the glue lines lining up like brickwork. Finally, the rim is turned round on a lathe.

Here's a link to a picture of me holding one of the polygons so that it might make more sense:

http://images.scrippsweb.com/DIY/2005/05/23/dhmm208_1cc_e.jpg

Thank you Dave. It's how I imagined but I was thinking maybe this was not the way as it seemed bound to wood tear-out during the lathe-turning part. One of my friend has been asking about solid Mahogany snare drums lately ;)

Dave,

I'm curious as to the Henning banjo design. I've looked on Google quite extensively, but can't seem to find any pictures. Do you know exactly how the 5th string tuner was integrated into the tailpiece? (It struck me as an interesting idea to perhaps try on a sort of electric banjo that I'm slowly designing/building.)

-Rob

Rob, I'm actually lucky enough to have gotten the original patent papers from Henning's estate (I need an original Henning banjo to go with them though...). If you go to the US Patent Office website, look up patent number 478,933 and you can see how it works. You have to have some kind of TIF reader to see the pics, but they have links to some free downloads if you don't have a TIF viewer already. The tuner is pretty much a violin type tuner that threads into a tailpiece casting.