Polishing Brass Instruments
aka: I've got the Buffing and Polishing blues....

Alan Larsen - 07:34am Apr 10, 1999

I like many others here, am primarily a self taught brass "technician". I still struggle with polishing and buffing, and will gladly take any and all advice on the subject.

I'm currently using a 1725 rpm motor, with 6" wheels. I realize the surface feet p/minute (sfpm) is a little slow with this combination, and I'm working on it. I'm using sewn cotton buffs for tripoli, and flannel for red rouge. I'm not using anything between the tripoli and red rouge like a white, yellow or lime type compound.

My biggest problem so far, is getting the surface good enough in my eyes to achieve an acceptable laquered surface. I seem to almost always end up with very fine scratches after red rouge buffing that really irritate me! You can only really see them from under 1 ft away, and only then under bright light, but I know they're there :-) Brasso will take care of these with little problem, but I understand the ammonia in Brasso can have some long term detrimental effect ( supposedly localized surface crystallinity effects on the brass), so i'd rather not have to end up here if I can help it. It also leaves a nasty black film that's harder to remove than buffing compound before laquering.

Any thoughts on technique, better "quality" compounds available, types of buff (chamois vs flannel etc) would be greatly appreceated. Will getting the sfpm up help a great deal, should I use an intermedeate compound between the tripoli and rouge?

Thanks ! Alan

Alan, Picture this...you make a nice coffee table, first you sand it flat with 80 grit sandpaper, then you finish with 600 grit sandpaper. You can't imagine why your finish has scratches in it because you finished with 600 grit. I think you already get the picture.

Tripoli is a VERY coarse and agressive compound which will smooth out gross imperfections and big scratches. After tripoli, you need to move to a good white compound, then a yellow or green compound and then red rouge at the end. You also need to carefully clean and degrease your brass before lacquering. You need a different wheel for each compound, don't mix compounds. You also need very soft flannel wheels for the finer compounds. A good spiral sewn muslin buff works well for the Tripoli and White compounds.

It's a very hard thing to get a perfect lacquer job on brass instruments and it takes lots of experience (which I personally never aquired).

If you need to use a polishing cream try Flitz if you can get it or Maas. Check your local grocery store. They both are much superior to Brasso.

Keep the faith.

Ammonia does react to brass. I remember a blueprint machine at work that was repaired using a brass fitting and everyone was wondering why it kept clogging. Blueprint machines use ammonia and it was reacting with the brass - a black colored residue kept clogging it.

It sounds like the black residue which you are getting from the Brasso. Definitely find something other than Brasso.

Things went much beter today! I used a white rouge in between tripoli and red rouge, and made massive strides on an older cornet. Air dry laquered, it show'd only the shortcuts I took to begin with ! (Another lesson learned)

practice, practice, practice...

Thanks, Alan

3450 RPM motors are cheaply available, sold as bench grinders. That would double your SFM. You could also go to 8 inch wheels and increase by a third.

But I have little enough experience with buffing to tell if a higher speed would make a lot of difference. I do believe recommended speeds are published, and that a 6" wheel at 1725 RPM would be substantially below them.

How big a motor are you using? Import half, 3/4, and 1hp grinders are pretty cheap, although they won't last as long as some buffers, and don't have the long shafts or bearing seals.

If you go to the 8" wheel you should be OK, it just takes longer that's all. Also the higher speeds are sometimes a bit rough for beginners. That much speed can rip an instrument right out of your hands if you aren't careful. Luckily I have a really sweet buffing setup with a switch that automaticaly changes speeds :-) . I wish I had a little larger machine, this one is really only good for woodwind repairs and small brass work.

Y'all just keep practicing so I can send my work to you! I really detest buffing!

Buffing has to be one of the dirtiest parts of brass work that I know of., but it's neat to see a piece gleam whem you're done with it :-) Ragging's not too bad, and a little fun.

I've got a small belt drive buffing machine that I got from a piano repair retiree. The spindles are only 6 inches, so I can use some length. Swapping out the 1/2 horse for a 3/4, 3450 rpm, and 8" wheels might just get me there.

Laquering however, is another story ....

Thanks! Alan

Does anyone have suggestions for polishing recessed areas that are all too visible but not reachable with an 8" buffing wheel (for example, the back side of a tuba, with the larger tubes partially covered by smaller tubes)?

John, welcome to the wild and wonderful world of HAND RAGGING! You take some heavy wicking material or cloth webbing. Rub a generous amount of buffing compound on the cloth and pretend like you're the shoeshine boy! Try it you'll love it! The biggest problem is finding a way to hold the instrument while you do the dirty work. You may also want to try a flexible shaft tool with small buffs but the hand ragging is much faster.

I have done hand ragging when I can get all around a tube, playing the shoeshine boy. The problem I have is bugging a part of the tubing that is not accessible all around its circumference.

Maybe the problem would be like trying to buff the inside of the bell of an alto sax, down deeper than a cone or globlet buff would reach. Must I slowly rub the spots with a cloth, using just my fingers, instead of being able to use the full length of a ragging rag?

Anything and everthing is fair game for the tight spots as far as I'm concerned. Wicking/cloth around a popsickle stick, every angle you can imagine with ragging material, Q-tips with compound on them, your finger stuffed in the end if a cloth, a rotory tool with an extended shaft and small wheel, and as a last resort metal polish like Flitz or Maas. The trick is figuring out how they did it in the first place before it was laquered or plated. There's always a way. Nobody says it has to be pretty to watch !

Alan, you hit it right on the head! With tubas and other large brass there is a continual solder/cleanup/buff process during building. Each section is often buffed up before the next section is added. Sometimes you just will not be able to polish EVERYTHING. If you get a chance to look at a tuba from Rudolf Meinl they are not nicely finished but they are most definitely a TUBA!! European manufacturers don't obsess with mirror finishes the way we do here in the states.

Polish it up as good as you can, clean it as good as you can, then be happy, you could be taking all of the dents out too:-) (or maybe you already are :-( ).

Alan and Julian, thanks for the perspective. In the case of my tubas, they were built in Russia, so they were never polished in the tight places, but now I know what I need to do (and what I may just leave less than perfect; if is good enough for Rudy, it should be good enough for me).

WOW, what a difference a good compound and buff combination can make ! I picked up a very good flannel buff, and a bar of Burns red rouge this week and the results were phenomonal. The home center flannel buffs just dont compare in softness and ability to hold the compound. And the Burns rouge is just soooo much smoother in application and use than the sticks or tubes that are readily available. I also added a tapered spindle ( for the new wheels, as opposed to a 1/2" arbor ) and that gave me an additional 2-3" of length on the shaft making it MUCH easier to get around. After seeing my excitement and results, all my wife could say, was " Oh, goody, does that mean I can look forward to MORE red crap that sticks to everything ?" Oh well, I'm happy ! :-)

When cleaning up after buffing, especially with Burns red rouge, try using Twinkle. It is a silver polish which comes in a little plastic tub with a sponge. It seems to disolve the rouge and leaves the surface very clean and grease free. There is also a similar product made by the same company which is for copper and brass. I still like the twinkle for all metals (when used as a final cleaner/degreaser).

If you ever have to buff woodwind instrument keys, use a bit of the twinkle on a pipecleaner or small bristle brush and the inside of your hinge tubes will be absolutely clean.

Julian, Twinkle appears to be something I need for my shop. Where can I buy it? Thanks.

I buy it at our commisary on base. Any large grocery store should have some in the cleaning products section. Wherever they stock Brasso and Haggertys silver cleaner should have Twinkle. Another great product in the same section is Maas which is a paste metal polish similar to Flitz but much cheaper. Pick up some Barkeepers Friend lime & rust remover while you're at it it's great for disolving the white deposits on woodwind mouthpieces and cleaning and brightening brass instrument valves. I can't keep any large chemical dipping stuff so the Barkeepers friend (liquid) is a great substitute. It's a combination of sulfamic acid, citric acid and hydroxyacetic acid. It's also not as nasty smelling as Limeaway.

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