Making your own pickups

Peter Breyfogle - 01:55pm Aug 12, 1998

I've hunted all around the web and at the local music stores and there's nothing on winding ones own pickups. And I want to! Seems it can't be much tougher than winding a transformer... Any one have any oppinions, or better yet, details?

I agree it is not that tuff to do. I make a lot of pickups.Threading the magnet wire can be tedious, more so after three pots of coffee! It takes practice to wind a good coil. The hardest part about it is finding sources of supply for the correct magnet sizes and pole orientation. You need to get enough information about magnetwire insulation to decide what type you want to use. Look under Magnet Wire in a search engine. Many companies have details of wire type and insulation online. You need to find a page that has 42 and 43 gauge wire listed. Single build insulation is preffered to keep the coil small.

Hopefully as time goes by more people will get involved with this and demand guitar parts suppliers to carry more pickup parts. Stew Mac is just starting to consider stocking these items.

(1) For the bobbin or spool, what materials are used? Does it help if it transmits magnetic field (iron)? Should it not (aluminum)? Does it want to be hard and dense (Corian)? How about wood? (2) WOuld it help to shield the bottom and sides of the finnished pickup.

Sorry not to have found the pickup notes under magnetic magic Don't I feel dumb. Added a whole exta discussion.

Sorry not to have found the pickup notes under magnetic magic Don't I feel dumb. Added a whole exta discussion

A small pancake shaped electromagnet ....designed for picking up iron parts.....is a good starting place.The coil is already wound inside of a donut shaped iron keeper.Radio Shack or Edmund Scientific.

Just stick a permanent magnet on the backside and you have a pickup coil for any steel vibrating string.

Let me add my kudos to all the others about this forum. It really gives confidence to the budding builder.

My present questions: I have a supply of virtually free 40 gauge wire. I've read that 42 or 43 is what's used. I think that using the 40 will make the coil %20 larger. What will the difference be? Also, what are peoples oppinions about magnet strength? Ceramic, alnico, other rare earth? Does anyone know or have a link to something about the Rickenbacker horseshoe magnets in some of their pickups?

A bigger coil will sound fatter than a small coil, however you may have trouble fitting enough 40-gauge wire onto a standard size bobbin. If the resistance is low, the output will be reduced. If it’s free though, give it a shot. Another thing about magnet wire is the insulation comes in different thickness. Single build insulation is what you will want, if your 40 gauge has heavy build insulation your coil may be larger than you have calculated.

Tele rhythm pickups may not work for 40 gauge, these are tough to get enough wire on because the bobbin is so small but P-90s could probably take close to 20% more wire if your wire is properly tensioned. Tele lead pickups might take the 40 also.Or you could make your own size bobbin.

Hi all, I'm new, I'm interested in winding my own pickups

the digest of electric pickup construction is a really good read. It has lots of good info. But I don't see the answers to these questions ... - how do you keep the proper tension on the wire? - what type of magnets? - is the size of the magnets? - where are sources for magnets?

I think that once I've got this info, I'll be ready to do my first try. thanks in advance. I'll post into another group on my techniques to get a decent hand applied finish (it can be done!)

regards,Hubbert

Everyone I know uses a felt tensioner. You can use a spring clamp or a nut and bolt system to pinch the wire between the felt. This is done by trial and error. Too much tension can stretch the wire and cause it to have more resistance or it can buckle or break the bobbin. Too little tension will cause loose wraps and will create a very microphonic pickup. A source for Alnico rods is Duramag

Don't wind anything on anything.Instead,use the string to generate the signal when it is in a magnetic field.

This idea goes back to the very basics of electromagnetic theory and is very clean compared to fretting(pun) about wire size,tension,turns,size of pickup and the myriad of problems discussed above.

Please do this simple experiment to get the idea.

Stretch any metal string tightly between two screws into a wooden base.Place a bar magnet near the string.Run a pair of clip leads from the two screws to the terminals of a powered speaker(microphone input).Twist the leads to avoid hum pickup.

Pluck the string and listen.

Go from there.Tell us what you learn.

I think I remember someone marketing this type of system in the seventies. I will check it out. I have used speakers for microphones before. It doesn’t seem particularly practical on a commercial instrument. Aren’t both methods basic electromagnetics Dwin? I always thought of winding pickups as Victorian parlor trick science. A good book is Magnetism an Introductory Survey E.W.Lee Dover publications ISBN No. 0-486-24689-2. It has all the stuff in it including the early history of this particular science.

Pickup magnits: Alnco magnits produce a sweeter less abrasive sound, with lower output. Ceramic produces a hotter signal, but produces a more edgy sound.

Jason...I don't think you followed what I suggested in my message #14.

There are no microphones,no speakers,no coils.The gadget goes back to the basics of electromagnetism which teaches that the same parts can be a motor or a generator.

What I describe uses only 2 parts to make a signal generator.Here,motion of the tring in a magnetic field generates a signal in the string itself.

Please give it a try and then reply.

Dwin

So Dwin, I am supposed to use a cone speaker such as a stereo speaker with no amplifier in-put just the leads from each end of the string with a magnet next to the string, right? I have been occupied recently but I am getting to it. Sounds cool. You are right I had not fully understood what you were getting at.

Can someone tell me the manufacture name ,and where to purchase braided pickup wire like Gibson and Dimarrzio used to use. Its a heavy outside braid and 3 wires inside.Not looking for 4 wire or the newer foil shielded type.thanks

You are talking about the wire with the exposed braid right? I don’t have a source for it right now. Lets make sure we are on the same track and I will have a look.

Dwin, I tried the arrangement you describe on a four-string array, and it works beautifully. Here are some of my observations: 1) The position of the permanent magnet doesn't change the timbre - it sounds pretty much the same wherever you put it. 2) You can get tremolo by moving the permanent magnet as if cross-picking (don't actually touch the string, of course). 3) The lower the resistance of the string/wire, the louder the sound. When I used three regular guitar strings and one copper hookup wire, the copper thing was the loudest.

What really bothers me is the fact that AFAIK such a simple system hasn't been marketed (Jason mentions that someone may have tried it but hasn;t got the details), not even in the toy industry...true, it lacks the versatility of a regular pickup, but it does provide a very cheap means of amplifying string insruments. I can't help thinking that there must be a snag somewhere, some hidden "feature" (the input on the amp is practically short-circuited - or am I wrong?; the body actively becomes a part of the circuit;)that has kept it away from the world.

It's easy to prove that it works, but why it hasn't caught on is a mystery I'd like to solve...

Does anyone out there have any ideas about the potential shortcomings/dangers involved with such a system?

Hello all!
Dwin's dynamomagnetomagical one-turn pickup must have an extremely low impedance, says theory. And impedance mismatch gives poor amplification, says theory. I think that's the reason for the resistance influence you mentioned, Mirjan. So here's an idea that might help you experimenters:
Probably many of you already own a special amplifier for that sort of signals without knowing it! Check if your stereo has a phono input which can be switched to "moving coil" (MC) mode. MC turntable pickups are comparable in function to Dwin's string pickup - so that should be a solution.

Although Dwin's system can work (I used to teach Physics)... i still haven't seen in the past 22 messages a clear description of how to wind a single coil type pickup with six poles for the six strings..

Is the coil actually a long oval encircling six permanent magnets?

I've searched the 'net, and haven't actually found a drawing yet! Anyone know of one online?

Dave P. (woodworker, trying to build a Strat type from scratch)

Dave, the term "single coil" is misleading - it's actually coilless, with the string intself playing the role of a coil. This is the gist of it - connect one lead to one end of a string (or strings) and the oter lead to the other end of the string (or strings), twist the leads (or solder them to a shielded cable) and connect to any amp. Place a permanent magnet under the string, and there you go... I've tried the system with four strings, and it works (all four strings at one end connected to one lead, all four strings at the other end connected to the other lead), but it has a number of snags (uneven string volume). I've no idea whether the number of strings is a limitation, but experimenting should be fun.

Mirjan: I was speaking of the traditional "single coil" pickup design, NOT Dwin's Physics experiment. Yes, I know very well that a moving wire in a magnetic field produces a current, but that's not the point right now.

What I'm looking for, as others here are, is a physical description of the construction of a traditional pickup, as i do not have an old one to take apart!

Dave P.

Here is a drawing of a pickup using non-magnetic poles with separate magnets. A Fender type pickup uses magnetic rods as pole pieces. You are right about the coil being a continuos oval shape.

Sorry, Dave, I misunderstood you. Here's a few links I found that may interest you: FAQ (no drawing, but pretty good description), Fender pickup , another Fender , another one.

Jason, thanks for the reference ... but I note that this page describes 6 coils (one around each pole piece)..is this actually done?

Mirjan: the patents really helped. thanks.

Dave P.

You are right I did not notice it describes six coils. Yes it can and has been done this way but this is six times the work. Six bobbins to make and wind. You can get some interesting effects this way. Feed different coils to different amps, E.Q. separate strings, wire it humbucking, out of phase bla bla bla. I wouldnt mess with it though.

Does anybody have a link to anything about horseshoe pickups. The only thing I can find is on the RIC page -and they don't give much away.

What is the RIC page Peter? A few months ago I made a replica pickup for a Richenbacher Bakelite electric violin. We had to use a dummy magnet but if you use an iron blank it could be charged with a low-tech coil magnetizer although it won’t be as permanent as Alnico.

Jason, rickenbacker calls themselves that on their page; it's just easier to write. Here is their PDF of the pickup I'm asking about. Is the horseshoe itself magnitazed or is it just a keeper for the flux lines?

For some reason my rig won’t open the file you are referring to. I have a horseshoe pickup in my shop that is for 10-sting steel. The horseshoe is magnetized. The violin that I referred to was supposed to have a horseshoe magnet according to the patent drawings that I made the pickup from. I will dig around in the Ricky web site later to see if I can find the file.Maybe Mirjan can have a look before I get to it.

I went to the Rickenbacher page and the horseshoe on the pickup is a magnet.Also the pickup I said was a 10 string is actually an 8 string.

Some one on another topic mentioned making a coil by wrapping wire around a screw (flat top)with a rare earth magnet at the head end.

The same thing could be done with 6 screws mounted in wood.

Seems to me that a single coil could be made by weaving the wire back and forth between screws like a string of figure eights.

Since the wire is clockwise on half the screws and counterclock on other half,the thing should be a natural humbucker.

Rare earth magnets,10 times stronger than Alnico,would take less wire which makes a lot of sense to me.Radio Shack has rare earth magnets about 1/4 inch dia.which seems right for guitar spacing

What think YE ?

I just went down to talk with a guitar maker named Rick Turner. He makes horseshoe pickups for his guitars where the horseshoe is soft iron and the pole pieces are ALNICO. He claims there is almost no difference in sound between these and the '34/ '35 rick pickups. He also pointed out that all the new Rick pickups are fake, the horseshoes are plastic coated with something or other. He said that with his system a tele coil placed in the horseshoes puts out almost twice the voltage. Very informative.

So I answer some of my own questions. I'm still interested in peoples oppinions of these pickups and any web rescorces on them. Thanks to you who have given me input on the classic building technique.

Dwin, it should work if you reverse the polarity of the magnets on the poles that are reverse wound, otherwise you would get an out of phase pickup.

Peter thanks for the info I have been thinking about doing some experiments on magnetic field focusing and that makes me think it could be worth trying.

Jason, here is a simple way to make a six coil pickup. Take a 12v reed relay (Radio Shack #275-233). Remove the reed (pulls out from one end) Enlarge the hole to 3/32". Insert a 2" finishing nail into the hole. Cut off the excess nail. Super glue a rare earth magnet (Radio Shack #64-1895) to the nail head. Six of these units will fit inside a strat pickup cover, and the magnets are about the same size as the holes in the cover. They work and dont sound too bad. One problem is that the magnet is too strong and can interfere with the string vibration. It could be made better if the nail were a magnet, and if you could focus the magnetic field as to only pickup vibrations from one string at a time. Do you know how to make the nail a permanent magnet? I would like to get feedback on this from anyone

aubrey:

yes, you can make a nail into a permanent magnet, tho a very weak one because of the material (iron, steel). One way is to simply stroke it with a magnet from one end to the other a large number of times. This aligns the molecules within. You can magnetize a needle for a home-made compass this way. But again, because of the material they are made from, the magnet is very weak.

Does the relay shape prevent you from mounting the magnet on the bottom of the nail (or screw), and using the metal of the screw to conduct the field lines to the string?

BTW.. I did the math.. the magets from RS are $1.59/pair. The relay is $2.49 each. That works out to a total of $29.71 + tax. Stew-Mac sells dual coil pickups for $19. $23 for humbuckers. I like building stuff myself, but am I missing somnething here????

Dave P.

The advantage I see with using the relays is that you could get an output for each string so you could run effects on different strings or EQ settings etc. This would be more experimental than practical to me. The coils are about the right physical size and resistance so I would say that it has value to someone. As far as the cost of making pickups and what Stew Mack is selling in the price range you quote you can make pickups cheaper as far as materials, that sound better.

Jason:

I would expect so ..IF I could find the matertials! So far, finding a source of 42 or 43 guage magnet wire has been impossible.

Dave P.

Yeah, the point of the relay thing is that six of them will fit inside of a strat pickup cover, making a hex pickup. I like the idea of sending the bass strings through different processing than the treble. However, the problem is that the magnets are too strong on top of the nail, and too weak on bottom. I currently searching for a magnet that is 3/32" X 1". Dura Magnetics is sending me a catalog, so Ill see what they have.

Anyone wanting to see a diagram of the reed relay pickup can go here. I added it to a schematic that I posted in regard to another discussion.

Well Dave you have been trying to hard to find magnet wire. I keep up on suppliers and have checked many out. The best price is from Essex Group (800) 348-4662 they manufacture it, other places just resell it. You have to buy a 5-pound spool @ 9 or 10 bucks a pound (price changes daily according to copper stock). The thing about finding pickup parts is you have to go through a secret society ritual where you find who to mention and who to pat on the back!

Aubrey will the pre amp work with a low impedance magnetic pickup? What range of load is it designed for? One more thing are you looking for a rod magnet or bar?

Jason, the pre amp circuit is a variation of a standard application for the 3819 FET. It is designed to be a high impediance pre amp, but I dont know what the exact range input should be. I made a few and used them as belt pack units until the latching problem reared its ugly head. I had shelved the idea until I found this forum. I was hoping someone with more electronic knowledge than I would recognize the problem and give me a cure. As for magnets, rod would be the best I would think. Im assuming that the relay coil would function better as a pickup if more of the magnetic field were inside it. The nail will transmit some of it, but not as effeciently as having the magnet inside the coil. Or am I wrong?

The material used in the nail will probably not be as efficient as having a magnet for the pole piece. I will have a look around for the size magnets you are trying to get; I have a ton of magnet catalogues.

Here is another place that has more available lengths for each diameter rod than most places the Magnet Source 1-800-525-3536. Plenty of 1-inch magnets but the smallest diameter I have seen in any catalogue are 1/8”.

Is there any reason for round pole pieces? Would rectangle do as good a job.

Jason, I'm impressed with your helpfulness in LOTS of the guitar related areas. And I just looked in your bio to see if there was a reason you could aford to be so helpful, and there's not! From that list of stuff you do, it doesn't seem there'd be time to mess about here sharing.
-Thanks.

How about metal topped pickups? It seeps like the plate would act as a keeper for the magnetic field and the strings wouldn't get any. Not so?

I skipped my diff-eq homework for the week this evening and drew up a pickup I've been thinking about. Here is an image. The idea is to have the pickup mounted on rods so it can be slid back and forth parrallel with the strings for different harmonics. It would be nice to have the pickup itself be thin (Like the 1/4 inch ones you were talking about in another section Jason) so you wouldn't have to rout a cavity; it could just slide on the guitar's surface. Are there ticks to making a thin pickup? This one will be active so my understanding is that it doesn't need so many windings anyway. My other thought was to knotch the rods at several locations and then have some spring system so the pickup 'clicks' into a spot and won't slide around.

Lots of questions Pete. Square pole pieces will work fine and I have seen several old pickups built this way. Putting a metal cap on the top of the coil will not stop the pickup from working even if the metal cap is grounded. More likely the metal cap will spread the magnetic field. I am not sure if there is a material that will block a magnetic field. I am not a scientist though. The sliding pickup is an idea that works pretty well. A friend had a Dan Armstrong. Making a thin coil is easy I regularly wind ¼” coils, yesterday I made 8 bobbins of this type and wound them all to 8.5K This makes a WIDE coil, off the top of my head 1-1/8” or 1-1/4” wide. You get a lot of overtones with these, they sound great. Finding a stock size magnet that will fit in a ¼” high bobbin is a bit harder. My pickups have adjustable poles with the magnets under the coils. I don’t recall if I have seen 3/16”X1/4” alnico rods but I am pretty sure you can get something in a ceramic block although it may be too much and pull the strings if you get the coil close. The bobbin plates on the TVJones pickup were made of thin sheet metal that I think were gun blued this will really make a ¼” high pickup. As far as how I spend my time no I didn’t win a lottery nor do I not have to work. I am just totally stressed out and insane!!! I work from about 7 or 8 in the morning till 10 at night usually 7 days a week. You should see what Deb does!

What is a bobbin? What does it look like? Where do you get them? I am making a lap steel guitar and intend on making a pick-up for it. I understand about the magnets and the wire, but the bobbin is something I am not to sure about. Is it necessary? Could some one describe it or post a picture.

Chris, a bobbin for a pickup has the same function as a bobbin for sewing: it's a spool to hold the wire coil. Take a look at the links in message #27. The bobbin is the skelleton of the pickup, it holds the magnets and the coil in place. The simplest form is two sheets (metal, plastic, wood, anything), one at the top of the pole piecess and one at the bottom, which keep the wire wrapped around those pole pieces from coming off the ends.

Welcome to the Forum Chris.You can make a coil without a bobbin but you still have to have a removable form to mount on your winder. That way you can twist the coil into odd shapes. I don’t recommend it, as this type of coil is extremely microphonic unless potted. Generally you have to make your own bobbins unless you are prepared to buy a quantity of them.

Ok, Ive been experimenting with the relay pickup again (re:#41,45,46). I found that the rare-earth magnet on top of the pole piece is a bad idea. What has worked the best is a ceramic bar magnet across the bottom of all of the pole pieces. Now the pickup can be placed very close to the strings and there is little cross-talk between coils. I tried different things for pole pieces - screws, nails, other scraps of metal. The nails work the best, but Im sure something else would work better. Ive given up on finding magnetic pole pieces at an affordable price. Someone told me I should try ferrite rods. They are used as core material for chokes. Does anyone know where to find these or know of something else that would work better?

I believe there is something called magnet iron that is more responsive in a magnetic field. I think it is resistant to magnetizing. You wouldn’t want a solenoid to become a magnet unless the coil is charged. I know that there is such a thing I am not sure what it is called. I think ferrite is just a metal containing iron. There are ferrite magnets. Start asking around at starter and electric motor rebuild places.

Ferrite cores are amazing for quick buildup and reduction of magnetic fields but it won't magnetize. Some electronics shop like Alltronics has some. This particular place doesn't look like it has exactly what you want though. here's a list of web electronics places.

Well, Ive been doing some seaches for ferrite. I found some interesting sources and information. Jean-El Magnetics has some interesting info. If I read their info right, ferrite is the material that ceramic magnets are made from. It comes in barium ferrite and strontium ferrite. They will make custom magnets. I dont know yet at what cost. Ive emailed them and wait on their reply. One other thought on the relay pickup idea: If the individual coils have an impedance of 1050 ohms, then if the coils were wired together in parallel, wouldnt you have a low impediance pickup?

You are right the type of ferrites you mentioned are used to make ceramic magnets. Some times they are called ferrite magnets. Some one needs to come up with an explanation or clarification of the difference between ferrite and the mixed ferrites. Do you know Mirjan? If you connect in parallel you will drop the resistance and if wired in series you will add the resistance.

Jason:

In re a metal cap on the pickup ... depends on what it is made of.

If made of a non-magnetic metal (aluminum, or some types of steels) it will have no effect. if of a magnetic material, then the magnetic field lines are carried by it, essentially making it an extension of the magnet to some extent. If there are a number of pole pieces, then yes the field lines get jumbled together more.

It seems that this plate would become magnetized horizontally to the strings. This would magnatize the strings horizontally and they wouldn't induce any voltage in the coil. It could be my understanding of electromagnetics is way off though, since lots of pickups have plates covering them and they work...

If the plate is ferrous it is going to affect the field. I would guess it would spread it like Dave says. Unfortunately I haven’t had time to do the experimenting that it would take to get a handle on it. I am having a hard time keeping up with the pickup work I already do. I got a flyer from Lace Sensor and they use a toothed field reflector that is placed along side the coil among other odd things like twisted coils. This is something I would like to investigate next if anyone has already done this type of work I would like to hear about it and I am sure others would too. As far as the direction of the magnetic field in relation to the strings, I think the field extends around the magnets or reflector in kind of a round shape connecting both poles of the magnets, at least that is what every drawing I have seen of the field in relation to the magnet. I don’t know if it would matter if the pole is pointed at the string or if it is parallel with the string. Anyone tried that?

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