Tools of the Trade: lutherie tools and their uses
David Liers - 01:17am Nov 12, 1997
I appreciate the effort you people are making within this online community. I feel fortunate to have all of this information available to me before I begin to build my first guitar. I believe that I'll be significantly better informed and make better instruments sooner once I begin cutting wood. Thanks.
I'm not sure that this doesn't belong in the getting started thread, but it didn't seem to fit with what was already there so I began a new discussion.
I have Cumpiano and Natelson's guitarmaking Tradition and Technology, but I'm interested in other's opinions as well. Am I asking too much to ask one, or more, of you established luthiers, who has this book, to add or subtract from (or clarify) the Tradition and Technology minimal tools list? If you were to have to re-acquire tools beyond the minimalist's hand tools, what order would you acquire in (I've read through the power tools discussion, but it didn't adequately address my ponderings)? I'm especially interested in your thoughts on sharpening tools and side bending tools. Any thoughts on bending machines vs. hand bending? I'm aware that I'm asking for a lot here. I appreciate your responses.
David
My tried-and-true sharpening tools are:
1) Hand
India Stone
Marburg stone
2) Power
- Double wheel bench grinder ordinaire
- 7" rubber abrasive wheel that turns at 700 rpm
- Hard felt lap 3" wide x 5" dia that turns away from me at 1750 rpm
Soft cotton buff on the opposite spindle; stainless compound on both wheels.
The felt lap will make a razor sharp edge in 5 seconds.
I use the stones for tools that need a true straight edge, like wide chisels and planes. I use the power tools for the tiny chisels and gouges where a little rounding of the edge is acceptable (and in some cases advantageous).
Check your library for any of the three toolmaking books by Alexander Weygers. They were on Van Nostrand Reinhold, but they're out of print. Fantastic books that teach you about steels, resourcefulness, problem-solving and all that stuff.
Welcome David,
The very first tool you should buy is the book Lutherie Tools from the Guild of American Luthiers. Tools can add up to a lot of money very fast and this book will tell how to make many of them your self. Some things you will just have to buy and I have some ideas but I'm going to let the flattop guys tackle this first.
The "beginner-who-finally-got-out-of-total-ignorance" set-up
Two cheap,made in China,stones, one grey on one side and red on the other .(the kind the sushi cooks use)
Standart 2wheel grinder( 5" Ryobi 59.95$ Can.)With a white wheel, burns less steel .Do not forget some way to true the wheel, the 10$ diamond is nice.
And my favorite: the hard felt wheel with Green compoud from Lee Valley( It is not every day that a Québecois is happy to be Canadian). The 1750 motor from an furnace oil burner (any 1/4hp... washing machine is nice)
Since the improvement bug is never far ,my next step will be drill bit sharpening. Suggestions anybody ? :-)
Hi David and all who are interested,
I have read both Cumpiano's book and Bennedetto's archtop text. From these I derived a complete tool list database using Microsoft Access.
I organized the reports by Chapter/Page number per text so that as I build chapter by chapter I can purchase what I need for that phase of construction. This helps spread the cost out over time.
Also in the database are the suppliers I choose to purchase the tools from with part numbers and prices (this research took months). The reports also give a total cost of tooling up.
Here's is what I have so far:
If you have MS Access your welcome to a copy of the database but I am still completing data entry ( I do this on the train on my way to and from work) so you may want to hold out for one more week and it should be completed.
BTW If any one has plans for building an overarm router I would be real interested.
Chris
Here's my "two-cents" opinion. I'm not very experienced in instrument building (a few dulcimers several years back and now a mandolin) but I'm fairly experienced in fine woodworking and machines.
For the "novice" craftsman I would put the bandsaw, drill press and router at the top of the list. Hand tools such as hand planes are wonderful, (I used to collect hand planes and have a failrly large collection) and can provide a better finish quicker than power tools, but require a great deal of preparation and experience. Most people, unless they just love the feel and history of hand planes will not get satisfactory results.
A cabinet scraper is a must. Sandpaper for me is a last resort. A cabinet scraper is one of the cheapest and easiest to use tools available. I have every shape and size imaginable.
A tablesaw and a stationary sander (belt and disc combo) are also big helps.
A scroll saw is also nice to have.
Power tools are very effective when used with jigs,etc.
Many power tools can be made fairly inexpensive and easily.
I have made a 20" band saw, stationary belt and disc sander, 16 " scroll saw, thickness sander, many, many jigs. Most were as good or better than "production machines".
I would strongly suggest when it comes to power tools, get the best you can possibly afford. Bosch, Porter Cable and Dewalt make good "hand" power tools. Delta and Powermatic make good "stationary" power tools.
For sharpening I use Japanese waterstones exclusively. I had tried most other stones and methods and a good Japanese waterstone is the best.
For power tools, your space is more of an issue than any thing else. If your willing to do a lot of looking the price barior can be overcome. Do yourself a favor and find some good used industrial grade machines for what ever you buy, but above all else plan your shop. If you can only have one saw besides a band saw like me, I like a radial arm saw. It is the most versital next to the table saw. buy the largest band saw you can afford. I have a 30", and when I don't mind changing blades a lot I can resaw almost anything up to about 15 inches wide. Most large cities will have a shop that can weld any band you need. for sharpening knives and chissels, I like lapidary drum sanders. You can run 600 grit belts wet. Do yourself a favor and forget the drill bit grinding jigs and machines. learn to sharpen them by hand. Most old time machinests are happy to teach you how to do it. You have more control over the holes you drill and it's faster. Point the drill bit for tighter holes, flatten it for oversize holes, and thin out the web for a to make a free cut and it will run cooler in hard wood or metal. If I hade the time, I would eliminate all power tools from my shop, but I like the feel and pride in accomplishment from using hand tools. My bench is 3' X 5' made from 8/4 poplar. It is hard enough to be durable, and soft enough to resurface easy. I have blind nuts at the bottom of all the bench dog holes that I use 1/2" bolts and maple blocks for clamping laminates. works great. the bench top cost me $50 to build. Add one european vice dog for about $30 and your in business. Good luck
Paul, I'll be searching out the books by Weygers. Thanks for the sharpening tips. Tom, the first and only tool I've bought to this point was Lutherie Tools. I bought it the same day I joined the guild. I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on tools as some day I see myself building mandolins, bouzoukis, and possibly violins (wish I'd known to look you up when I was living in C-ville 4 years ago). The washing machine motor idea really appeals to me Henry. Chris, I'm quite interested in your database info. I'm a Mac user. Is there any easy way to convert everything into straight text or tables? I'll try to find a old version of MS Access for download (if they made it for the Mac). Terry and Dale, my first order of tool buying business is definitely to start the search for a quality-used-industrial-big bandsaw (there was a post made to this end in the power tools discussion). There's a plan for an inexpensive bandsaw in Lutherie Tools. 30 inches would be great if I can find a good working one that I can afford.
Today I located some 10-15 year old mesquite that I want to resaw into backs and sides and possibly fingerboards. I'll be starting a new discussion regarding the topic of resawing (that) wood tomorrow or therebouts. Please follow that thread if you know something regarding this topic.
Its great to get such quick responses. Any new comments regarding a tool list would be appreciated. Nobody took a stand on side bending tools/methods. Anyone want to give it a go? Does it pay to learn to hand bend or is a bending machine a better alternative? Either way, what tools do you, or would you choose to, use?
David
David,
There is a seperate topic called: Side Bending Issues that you should check out. I've found many of my tools at garage sales and have also built my own jigs and some tools. My greatest find at a garage sale was a 22 inch Performax drum sander for $150, I couldn't believe it! I think everyone should have a router table and it's easy to make. I use this table for so many things; making bridges, joining plates, etc. The drum sander is also a time saving tool although I need to get some type of dust collection for it. Has anyone built a dust collector? The last tool that I find indespensible in my shop is my Ryobi spindle sander. I use it t with a fence for making slotted headstocks and for thicknessing bindings and purflings, and for making templates and molds. I saw recently that Sears has a similar sander that seems stronger and has a larger table and is about the same price.
Hello again David,
These guys have covered power tools pretty well and I'll just add that you shouldn't buy a tool until you are pretty close to having a need for it. Sometimes if you try to anticipate what will be useful you wind up with something that just takes up space (I have a few of those for sale BTW).
Fiddles and mandolins and such, a short list of things that you can't manage without and probably have to buy:
Finger planes- four sizes 8mm - 18mm. You need all of them. These are things you can make but it might take you a while to get them to work right and you could be carving tops. Not outrageously expensive. Luthiers palm plane would be handy for the bigger jobs but it's over $100 and you can manage without it.
Good rasps. The nicholsons will do but real hand cut patternmakers rasps are worth the cost. They cut fast with good control.
A complete set of good flat chisels and several gouges including a #3 one inch or so wide, a #3 about 1/8" wide and a #6 about 1/2" wide. I like the Japanese water stones and the Japanese chisels and gouges too.
A good block plane, lots of cabinet scrapers. A peghole reamer. A japanese rasor saw (or similar saw),...
You know, I'm drawing a blank here on things you have to buy. Just about everything else can and should be shop made. You'll know what they are when you come to them.
My two cents worth? I think it is important to buy tools when you need them, and not before. Consider what skills you want to master, and buy accordingly. Space in your shop is a factor. I've worked in a cramped shop, where I'd pick up a handsaw for a quick crosscut rather than wheel the table saw out of the corner. But I wouldn't rip the groove for a truss rod with a handsaw and chisel or router plane!
the book LUTHERIE TOOLS has a nice feature, different luthiers list the tools they use the most. I'd like to see carried over here sometime- oh! really good measuring tools! Starret 4" adjustable square, 6'ruler, and a good stainless 42' ruler suit me.
Norman, good point about the measuring tools. I'll add that some kind of dial caliper is indespensible. The plastic ones seem to be fine for our purposes. For carved tops I forgot to mention a central tool; the thickness caliper. This is something you can make but it is nice to have a really accurate one for reassurance. My graduating drill is so accurate I can almost manage without it but it is good to have to check behind and to map out the thickness map for my records.
It looks like the first instrument one builds is the most expensive one, all other are a very good deal ;-)
There was a funny backpage article in a FINE WOODWORKING about getting the bug to build a guitar,and all the gear he acquired.
Tom, you are so right about the dial caliper! I will be forever thankful to the woodworker/teacher who opened my eyes to its use. My $30 plastic one is in my hands constantly. the 6" ruler,a pencil, a knife and a scraper...... let us not forget our third hand, TAPE!
Tom, you are so right about the dial caliper!
And make sure to get one with a depth guage. One of mine doesn't have it and I'm ready to throw it
away as useless.
the best tool I have found lately is a pair of OTC magnifying glasses. Must mean I'm getting old.
Porter Cable “Quicksand’ Orbital Sander
Model 333 uses a five hole hook and loop (velcro) abrasive paper, while the Model 334 uses five hole STICKIT adhesive paper. Can someone tell me of any disadvantages or advantages of these two machines. I just purchased the 333 and am wondering if I will be limited to using abrasives only sold by Porter Cable?
Hi Roman, I think you made the best choice, the hook and loop (Velcro is a registred name)let you swithh grades of paper easyly and you can re-use a paper disc and store it without the dust sticking on the paper. The Porter Cable brand of paper (made by 3M )is not the best on the market , the local hardware shop(Rona in Québec) sells "Siafast" brand (made in Switzerland) in Yellow and Blue color code (the more expensive last longer, can not remember witch one ). There is also a German made paper on good enough quality. And BTW the common mistake with these is to start sanding when you forgot to place a new paper on the thing .... (28 $ Can. to replace the Hook part ), Happened to twice already, My wife say than it is normal for artists to be absent- minded <g>
Salut Henry,
Thanks for the info regarding paper. Does it make sense to have two different pads for this machine, a hook & loop and an adhesive pad? I suppose if someone gave me a wheelbarrow full of sticky abrasive paper than oui! Otherwise,non! I answered my own question. I see you have a new hat on this forum. You must know people in high places! Congrats...Regards, Roman
Thank-you Roman, The adhesive backed paper is great for the person who sticks with the same grade paper for long lenght of time (could not resist the pun)but since I now work on smaller thing I would rather keep a spare hook and loop pad ,the theory of "maximal aggravation" predict that I will destroy the next pad late at night or Sunday afternoom.<g>
There is a lot of discussion here about planes and chielsels. Have any of you ever hear of Amercian Machine and Tool Co. (AMT) in Royalsford PA? They are a mail order company that makes and designs power and hand tool for the wood worker. Most of their hand tools are manufactured in China under their supervision, from what I understand. They do have a good selection of hand tools and a growing selection of power tools. I personaly prefer using my hand tools over the power tools I have. I do get a great feeling to build something and still be able to "hear" the compliments when it is complete. For anyone living in the eastern part of PA. AMT also has a store front at the facilities at Royalsford that is open to the public. In the back of the store is their bargain racks where returned, reconditioned and discontinued merchandise can be found at very resonible prices. Several years ago I bought a set of three violin planes for $17.00. I haven't built any violins "yet" but have used them in many other aplications and they work great. I usually make a yearly trip there and come out with very good bargins. The quality of metal they use in these tools is not the best but a little sharpening and they work just fine. GBH
A tool I find very useful is the Dremel hand drill, they make almost any bit conceivable for this. I just wished that I had bought the variable speed version. Daniel Bingamon
Sanding- If you're into serious sanding, air driven orbital sanders are the the tool to use. They are a bit expensive, due to the need for a large volume compressor, but once you have tried air, there is no going back to the electric stuff. Since I do a lot of sanding, the paper is really important to me. As bizarre as it sounds, there ain't nothing made in America that is worth using! The stuff from Finland, sold as Mirka, it is arguably the best that my circle of woodworkers has found. I use the gold Bulldog autobody stuff in adhesive 5" discs. For the airtool itself, Dynabrade is the current favorite. Some of the others, like Sioux or the models found in discount catalogs don't sand as aggressively nor last as long. All tools are not created equal, and price does often tell the difference!
Dremel tools-- I saw some mention of dremels in one of the discussions. I currently own 4 and have gone through several more. Now there's a junk tool if ever there was one! If you use a dremel alot, buy a Foredom. Precision made and far more powerful. Because of the flex shaft the Foredom is somewhat bulkier to use, but it's a real beauty. With some ingenuity you can make router base fixtures and other jigs for them. They are great for sanding neck heels. Maybe Stew Mac will eventually catch on and create some Foredom do dads.
Bob, You are right on. I have two Foredoms that have had very heavy use for the last 20 years. It is easy to wear out three Dremels a year which is roughly the price of the Foredom. I have replaced bearings in my hand pieces twice which costs about 5 dollars for each hand piece, and the bearings are stock items from any bearing supply company. I do keep a Dremel arround though as I like the router base and the router table attachments.
Dale
BOB, you are exactly right about the dremal, however the fordome isnt my first choice either. at this point I dont know much about building intruments,but I have been a tool-maker for better than 15yrs. If your situation presents its self for a high rpm tool,may I suggest you look at a rear exhaust (DOCTO)high speed grinder they are difficult to find and the retail is about 350-400 dollars you should start looking in a machine shop supply catologe, there are many imatations dont try them you will be sorry. The DOCTO high speed grinder i have i have used daily since may of 85. The rpms may be to high for some roughing,but with the right cutter it is very precise.Also you can check with your dentist and get a catolog for dental tools, I have found these indespensable for very precise detail work. The grinder turns 100000 rpms with 80psi. no thats the right amount of zeros. hope this helps some one.
Bob Gleason's reference to air-powered sanding leads me to a few thoughts: 1. An air compressor is very valuable for any full time shop. You can buy fairly inexpensive single stage compressors with a 6 hp motor and a 60 Gal tank for $400-500, and I have found mine to be adaquate (note, these are not true 6 hp motors and the compressor is only a single stage). 2. I bought this compressor specifically to use air-power sanders, and I will never never go back. The dynabrade is the cadilac of the industry, and is very easy and effective in use. I also bought a Nitto Kohkio Line sander--which uses square, not round paper. (This is a product you must find at an abrassives industrial supplier) It is a much less agressive tool, but very durable. I use it for wet sanding lacquer, and again, I will never go back. 3. You can purchase a venturi style vacuum pump for about $100, and with a little bit of close pore tape, can build some wonderful vacuum hold down jigs. With a small investment in thin (1/16) rubber sheeting, you can build a simple vacuum gluing jig for braces and the like. Very quick and effective. It is very nice to clamp for 5 min, release to clean out glue squeeze out and re-clamp, with no significant effort.
Bruce Johnson - 06:36pm May 30, 1998
Hello all;
I'm doing a lot of heavy duty wood carving these days, turning out dozens of electric bass necks with elaborate scroll headstocks in maple. For shaping all the concave areas, the fastest tool I've found is an electric die grinder fitted with a relatively small single-cut bullet shaped bit. It will hog away wood very quickly in any direction in relation to the grain, and leave a surface finish much better than a file. It's much faster and smoother than a Foredom flex-shaft tool. With some practice, I've found that I can work the shape of an area just as precisely as I could with a file or a gouge, but in a fraction of the time. The key is to work the tool gently, moving it side to side, and letting the motor and bit do the work. The wood comes off in little shavings and doesn't burn. I usually do a little hand sanding with 180 grit cloth on a foam block to get rid of any little ridges and lumps, and then power sand with small combi-flap wheels to bring the wood up to the final finish. My favorite electric die grinder is the Makita 906H, which costs about $185. It's an all aluminum housing, kind of cylindrical in shape and about 14" long. It runs smoothly, stays cool for hours, and isn't really very noisy (much quieter than a router). It isn't cheap, but if you do a lot of wood carving and actually expect to get paid for it <g>, it's a good investment. I also have a Makita GE0600 die grinder, which is only $90, but it's not as pleasant or precise as the 906H. It's an all plastic housing, and it has much more noise and vibration. It's harder to hold onto and much more tiring to use.
I have a marlin which i have had to heavily modify to accept top plates. The width of the plates is the problem, I had to extend the throw on the pin gide and router holder. I dont know if they make a larger machine as I got it second hand. I have found that the machine is slightly out of parralel and dosnt particularly do a real tight tolerance job. I just use it for roughing out and for uniformity between sets of plates. It saves a lot of time as I have a bad shoulder. I would be sceptical about its abillity to make a finished product. There is a photo of a machine in Router Techniques availible from alot of tool suppliers that looks like it would work better and could be home built. Im thinking of making one of that design.There is an article on Steve Andersons home built machine in American Luthiery # 16 Good photos there.Harware store parts.
As I was experimenting with PCV ( or PVC ? ) flutes , I just remembered that I had a special 3/8" drill for drilling Plexiglass, the brand name is " Plas-Drill" ,the point is ground at 90° .Made by " Craftics" inc. Chicago. I found it in a plastic supply shop ( look for :Commercial Plastic and Supply corp. , they have retail stores in many US states and European countries )
Those drills are available in 8 sizes from 1/8" to 1/2".
Save yourself a few bucks with a trick I learned in machine shop years ago. You can easily modify any set of twist drills for plexiglass and brass by grinding a flat surface on the cutting edge that it is parallel to the length of the drill for about 1/32". With a Dremel and a small stone it takes a few seconds per drill. It eliminates the grabbing that happens with a normally ground drill.
Hello there Forum members. I'm wondering if any of you have experience using either the Ryobi or the Performax 16" drum sanders. I know the Performax got much better reviews in at least one woodworking magazine, but the Ryobi is half the price and that's always an attraction, if the thing can actually thickness sides and plates without too much trouble. I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who has used either machine. Thanks.
I have the Performax Pro Max III (the one with the cantilevered drum), and find it much too flexible for accurate thicknessing.
Joel, We have a 36"performax,and can without any problem sand to .090,but when we go that thin we adjust the back head up,that way you dont get snipe(like on a planer).We run it sort of slow and only use 80 and 120 grits.but it gives a flat piece and never more than .005 difference across the 36" width.Dont buy the cantalevered type they flex to much!
There's a company here in Canada called Lee Valley Tools, they make beautiful and incredibly well designed hand tools for every conceivable method of wood working. I don't know if anyone regularly contributing here is from Canada, or orders to the US from Lee Valley, but they're definaltely worth looking up.
Hi, I was over in the mountain dulcimer section and someone mentioned spool-clamps. Instead of using hardwood dowel for the spools I bought a bunch of single-hole cork stoppers through the biology dept of our local university. (check the yellow pages under scientific supply) The more usual black rubber stoppers would work well to, but they are more expensive. A few cut up lengths of 3/16 ready rod, and some washers and wingnuts and I was ready to go! I think the clamps ended up costing me about $1.00 each. The cork is non marring, and capeable of exerting far more pressure than I need.
Jim
Here's some advice regarding the most important tools for the beginning luthier: Make or buy the most substantial workbench your budget and your workspace will allow. A most inspiring book of this subject is titled: THE WORKBENCH by Scott Landis and is published by Taunton Press. Ever conceivable type of workbench is described along with hundreds of beautiful color photos. There is a chapter devoted entirely to the workbench needs of luthiers. I would then buy an appropriately sized band saw; a 10" tilting arbor table saw; a drill press; a 1/4" router and a small laminate trim router. A router table is also nice to have. The beginning luthier should first decide on the type and size of instruments that will be built, as this can influence the size and cost of these power tools. In the final analysis, bigger is not always better or even practical.
The Workbench Book is available from the MIMForum Bookstore.
I just made a very useful tool. I made a classical guitar tuning machine drilling jig based on the picture in the Stew-Mac catalog. (part# 3898 page 21 of the summer 98 catalog)
The hardest part was drilling the holes EXACTLY where they were suppose to go. I could describe the jig I made to make those holes perfect if anyone's interested. But boy, It sure made the drilling job easy.
I also made a thickness gauge for less than $20. The deapth gauge was $15 from Lee Valley and the frame was less than $5 of red oak. There's a picture of it at http://www.ixpres.com/broulet/tools.html
Phil: Thanks for putting up that link.
I wanted to share another jig that's worked our well for me. It's my resaw jig for my bandsaw. Imagine an L shaped wooden fence. Now look down on that fence from the top. I've planed off some wood from the front and back of the fence so when looking down at it from the top it would be curved. Set up this fence so the distance between the fence and your blade is the thickness you want for your cut. Use a feather board to hold the work against the fence. As you SLOWLY resaw your wood the blade will tend to wonder. Because the fence is curved you can turn the wood to the left or to the right to bring the saw cut back the place you want it. It works great! I just did a dulcimer back and sides on a Delta 8" bandsaw with a 3/8" blade.
Someone was talking about the magnetic thickness gauge that Lee Valley sells (it's about $15.00 Cdn) . I bought one and it does work, however be warned, it works on the repellant forces of the magnets, therefore you have to physicaly hold one of the magnets on the underside of the instrument top. This sort of limits you to what you can reach through the soundhole. As I said, it works, just not the way I expected.
I just finished glueing the bridge on my latest project, a twelve fret clear parlor guitar. This setup put the bridge quite a distance south of the sound hole and I knew that clamping it would be a bear. So I bit the bullet and and made a copy of the Fox steel string bridge clamp. It is really quite simple ,two screws in a metal bar go down through the two outside bridge pin holes and are secured on the inside with wing nuts, pulling the top and center of the bridge together. Then screws at each end of the bar, in a tapped hole, push down on the ends of the bridge. An added advantage is that if the two central screws are a tight fit in the pin holes they serve as alignment pins and the bridge cannot slide around on the glue. The pictures in the LMI catalog are a good guide for construction details. Also, as they note, it makes it a simple task to clean up the glue line. I'm really sold on it.
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