Building a cookie-tin (backpacking) banjo

Saron Mack - 09:07pm Sep 12, 2000

I am an avid backpacker and banjo-player and have seen a backpacker's guitar (very small/light, plays fairly well) but alas, can find no banjo equivalent!

I was wondering if anyone has any ideas of how to either build a backpacker's banjo (I never built a banjo before) or other suggestions. I have seen gourd and grain measure banjos but am not sure if they'd be light enough or durable enough for backpacking.

Any help or ideas would be greatly appreciated! =)

I made a cookie-tin banjo to take with me the year I spent in South America. It was easy to build, light, relatively durable (you can push the dents out with your thumbs), and made it there and back. The only thing wrong with it is that it's so lightweight it's rather hard to hang onto when you play. The friction of your left hand sort of takes the whole banjo along when you fret. But you get used to it.

Start looking for cookie tins the right size for a banjo pot -- you can go small, but the smaller the pot the quieter the banjo. It doesn't have to be round, either. And you can store stuff inside when you backpack, at least until the whole thing rusts shut.

OK, here are some pictures of the cookie-tin banjo. I got the idea shortly before I left for Ecuador for a year to be a volunteer English teacher (exactly five years ago) when I saw a guy who had one at the Old Songs Festival in upstate New York. He'd gotten the idea after seeing pictures in the booklet "Musical Instruments of the Southern Appalachian Mountains," a book I had myself, and which is in our Bookstore. This fellow was inspired by the picture of the "Ham Can Banjo" (page 42, for those of you who have the book), although he'd used a round tin about the size of a regular banjo pot. I wanted something a lot smaller that would fit into my backpack, although I usually ended up straping it to the outside of my pack. It made me friends everywhere whenever I travelled with the banjo in plain sight, and I often gave brief impromptu performances in airports and post offices and the like.

The cookie-tin is 7" in diameter and the neck is a short-scale neck, like my own banjo but without the top three frets. As I usually sing with my regular banjo capoed on the 2nd or 3rd fret, this suits my voice just fine. A larger tin gives you a louder instrument, but of course takes up more room in your pack. The tin rusted shut during the 4 months I spent teaching in the Galápagos, and this is the first time since I got home that I had any reason to try and break the rust weld. Took about 10 minutes to work the lid loose. You might want to give your tin a good coat of paste-wax, and renew it occasionally to try and stave off rust. That might also help keep the top nice and shiny.

The neck/fretboard is one piece of quartersawn cherry. I made it too narrow when I took the width-at-nut measurement from my full-size banjo and used that for the width-at-nut of the cookie-tin banjo. I should have taken the width at the third fret of the full-size banjo instead. For the dots I just drilled shallow holes in the cherry and filled them with an epoxy/ebony sawdust mixture.

I tried several banjo bridges that I had around the house, and none of them were wide enough to compensate adequately. The instrument was also too "mild" with an ebony-capped bridge. Making a wide bone bridge allowed me room to compensate the strings (there have been other discussions here on the need for greater compensation for short-scale instruments), and brightened up the sound considerably.

The U-shaped piece of felted plywood was added after the instrument was complete. Without it, the banjo had a strange buzz/rattle. I don't know what caused it, and thought perhaps the lid of the tin was acting like a membrane and vibrating, and making noise. Using that plywood piece to put some tension on both the top and back got rid of the noise. When you close the lid, the lid pushes against the plywood, which pushes against the top. I push it as far forward (towards the peghead) as it will go before closing the tin.

This was your basic get-it-done-today-because-you're-leaving-tomorrow project. It took one weekend to draw "plans" (a sketch) and build and finish (with Behlen's Qualasol), another weekend to assemble, string, and play endlessly with different bridges until I gave up and made my own. The strings are medium gauge, usually used by frailers, and I suspect light strings wouldn't work as well. The hardest part of the whole thing turned out to be cutting into the tin for the hole to slide the neck in, without ruining the cookie tin by crushing it or wearing off the coating. I used good 5-Star banjo hardware knowing this would be my only banjo for an entire year, and never regretted the expense. In fact, my only regret was not making a cookie-tin guitar to take with me too. How does it sound? Like a quiet banjo.

Hope this all makes sense when accompanied by pictures. Any questions, just ask.

That's a beautiful instrument, Deb. Please give us a hint on how you actually cut the hole for the neck.

I built a cedar topped banjo that's pretty light. It would be lighter if I'd used a lighter wood for the neck instead of maple and if I'd foregone the steel bar reinforcement. I agree with Deb - use good tuners or you'll live to regret it. Also a shorter neck can help with portability issues.

I sent Jpegs of mine to the forum a long time ago but don't know if they ever got posted.

The big disadvantages of mine are that it's not very loud and it doesn't sound like a banjo. Its advantages are that it's quiet and has a nice mellow sound, not like a banjo. I.E. it's all a matter of taste.

It *was* five years ago, and what stands out most in memory is a lot of very bad language <g>. I started by sawing a slot with a hacksaw right next to the rim of the tin, but don't remember how I hung onto the tin during the process to keep from scratching the coating. It was cutting down from the slot to make the square hole that caused me the most trouble -- I don't have any tools for cutting thin metal except a pair of tin snips, and they were much too big to use in this application. I think I ended up using a small jewelers wire cutter because it was the only small metal-cutting tool I had on hand. I was in a hurry...

Your banjo pictures are indeed in the Library, in the discussion "Spruce-topped 5-string banjo design/bracing questions."

Great instrument, Deb. I'm thinking about all the cookie tins that have laid around our house for years, until a few months ago when a now regretable small cleaning binge lead them all to the trash. I recently discovered how great the little cut-off wheel on a dremel tool is. It is useful for cutting all kinds of things. Cutting the neck hole in the cookie tin would be ....well, a piece of cake.

I use those Dremel wheels on my metal bodies, they work great. You would have to be carefull to not burn the paint though.

Dremels sound like they'd do the job. If you'd another approach, Radio Shack use to, I don't whether they still do, carry a hand operated nibbler pretty cheap. You need only drill a 1/4" starting hole and nibble until you have a square hole of the size you want. A nice tool too if you makeing knob and instrument cover plates for an electronic project as well, which is what they are designed for. <g>

That sure is nice looking instrument Deb.Shoot I got cookie tins screaming at me as well Julian and I'm not sure I could even play it with the tip of left middle finger missing, but I might make one anyway for the fun of it.

You could use a knife blade to cut the metal. Practice on an aluminum can to get the feeling first. I've driven knives with little hammer taps through food tin material with few problems.

You could also use a wood chisel with a backing block of wood to support the metal. That will avoid the stretch wrinkling of the edge.

Wow, I never imagined such a great response to my desperate question! Thanks Deb for your pictures! =) I will have to give it a try... I wonder what titanium or aluminum would sound like (and how durable they'd be)? I have old backpacking pots that might be less rust-prone.

I wonder what titanium or aluminum would sound like (and how durable they'd be)?
I kind of doubt the material you use will have much of an effect on the sound -- it's more likely to be affected by how big the pot is, and how thin the metal is.

I have old backpacking pots that might be less rust-prone.
They'll also be somewhat heavier. I suspect that the metal needs to be pretty thin and flexible or you'll lose both volume and any banjo-like tone.

Glad you found this useful, Saron. I was waiting to see if you came back before taking mine apart and getting a shot of the neck stick without the cookie-tin pot. One picture will explain everything. I'll try to get to it this weekend, so be sure to check back again.

OK, here are the last of the pictures. Sorry to take so long -- I had to get up the courage to take the thing apart -- I was afraid the screws might give me some trouble. But I must've remembered to wax the screws with paraffin (good girl!) because it came apart very easily.

The first picture shows how much I had to compensate the bone bridge, and for which strings:

The next two pictures show that portion of the neck stick that was hidden by the tin in the pictures above. The curve that fits against the rim I cut with an exacto knife. The "fretboard" is flush with the rim of the tin, and actually should have been 1/8" taller than the rim. While the action is very comfortable, I felt the bridge would have looked a lot better if it was 1/8" taller. The two "ledges" actually touch the surface of the tin, and support it. The cut-away section allows the tin to vibrate more-or-less like a banjo skin, without support. The little indentation at the end of the neck stick is to fit snug against the tin, and still leave room for the seam.

Hope this is all clear. If you have any other questions, please ask.

I have come up with a way to get rid of the raised edge on the rim problem. I simply ground that portion down a bit. This was fine, and I needed to get rid of that lip on the edge, as I am making mine as an old fashioned frettless, like the old mountain banjos. This may sound very unconventional, but I used your standard yellow pine for the neck. The fretboard was a planed down length of walnut (wished I had a full piece of walnut for the neck), and thus far, the neck shows no signs of warping. ( I use wire strings, but made the neck a little thicker than I would normally have made, but I have the longer fingers to make it not cause me any problems). Latter when I get My hands on a good size piece of cherry, walnut or even oak, I will replace the neck. Great pictures! Some one mentioned the Fox Fire books. For anyone interested it is in the FoxFire # 3, Pages 119 to 185. At the end of that chapter, it covers the measurements for two of the main varieties in the book. It also gives a rough formula for fret spacing, but I have had some problems with the spacing all the way up the fretboard. I would advise to use a good online fret-spacing calculator, or go the old fashioned way - fretless! Chad

Hi Chad, and welcome to the MIMForum. I didn't find the rim a problem. It wasn't in the way as it was only about 1/8" tall. It would've had to be over 1/4" tall before it would have interfered with my design.

Deb, You have to really love that instrument! You did great work on it, and you got some really great pictures of it also. Much appreciated. I started a 4 string fretless myself a few weeks ago and haven't had any problems, YET. I used a box cutter to cut the tin for the neck entrance. I used some "aspen" with a rosewood fingerboard. (I know, but, It's all I had laying around that I wasn't using for something.) Thank you again for posting all the pictures!

You're welcome!

I used a box cutter to cut the tin
What's that?

I'm not sure Deb, but he may be refering to razor knife. The type you cut dry wall with. Some folks also refer to them as mat knives.

That would be correct, Sir. I should have said razor knife. My apology on throwing you off with that. I was so jealous when I saw your Banjo but, Then again I haven't ever built one before or played one for that matter. I can't remember where I got the link at but, He gave instuctions on building a 3 string fretless Cookie Tin Banjo and, That's why I started building this.

Deb, How did you fasten the bridge to the top? Did you use glue to stick it down? I cut a little piece of Aspen and put a fret into it, which gives me a decent volume but, I think I may need to cut away the top of the Neck stick so it doesn't muffle the Vibration of the tin top.

Just like on a regular banjo, the bridge is not attached to the top. The strings hold it down. I don't think aspen is the best choice for the bridge -- my experience was: the more mass, the better.

Yes, your neck stick can't touch the top, except at the edges. I'd cut the "hollow" in the stick a bit deeper than the 1/8" I used, which I felt afterwards was too shallow -- maybe go 3/16".

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